What To Do About Kickstarter And IndieGoGo Fundraising Campaign Fatigue...

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• Tuesday Ryan | June 18, 2012 9:33 PMReply

  From your article, I can certainly feel the stress and fatigue you encounter from the numerous project hopefuls that seek your approval. I understand the difficulty. When I worked in development for a major studio, a weekend read would consist of no less than 10 scripts, 80% of which would never see the light of day. It was exhausting to read script after script and maybe like one. It was painful.
  
  Then I made the move to the creative side and I gained some valuable perspective. Completing a project means something (and it's perfectly ok if it means nothing to you). And while it's not necessary to praise every Kickstarter or Indiegogo project that hits your inbox, if you respect the effort and work involved, you can review the projects presented to you with an objective mind.
  
  So simply read the pitch. If it speaks to you, recommend it. If it doesn't, don't. You're just one person. That's all you can really do. You can send well wishes to the filmmakers who don't make your cut. Your recommendation doesn't guarantee success and your dismissal doesn't guarantee failure.
  
  Or you can choose to exclude promoting any one project in favor of promoting the respective sites. So instead of encouraging readers to fund a particular project of your choosing, you can encourage them to browse the sites and give to what speaks to them. Then you don't have to suffer the dreaded funding fatigue on your own.
  
  I still get numerous submissions to my personal inbox just because I was once in a position to help. I have a nice form letter stating that I cannot accept submissions of any kind. It may seem cold but since I am in no real position to do anything other than pass the script/project along, I am reluctant to involve myself in the legal matters that involve receiving unsolicited material.
  
  Hope that helps.

• CG | June 16, 2012 2:08 AMReply

  Long time lurker, 1st time commenter but I just had to comment on this particular article because I feel Joe Anybody w/ a camera or a copy of Final Draft is doing crowd-funding...I personally have only donated to a couple that I knew were actually going to happen
  
  As to your inundated inbox, I think maybe filmmakers or followers of S&A saw how you championed for Matthew Cherry's 1st campaign and then the SXSW 1 a few months ago and w/ the ABG campaign last year. So they feel the carte blanche to expect you to post theirs w/ as much fervor. But if anything, I agree w/ some commenters below that you should set forth a list of criteria for crowdfunding submissions to meet before posting. Here's just a few of my suggestions
  
  1) Only deal w/ scripts that are registered: If they can't spend the $20-$30 it takes to protect their work, they're clearly not taking the business side of it seriously. A financier in the industry likely wouldn't touch a script that wasn't copyrighted. For docs, maybe request that they have a teaser trailer or something to show they've actually started somewhere in the production process on their own.
  
  2) Only post campaigns that have some crew in place: Most film campaigns need a good bulk of the money for camera rentals. But if you need say, $4500 to rent a camera for a month to shoot, who's operating it? Do they know how to maximize the camera's specs? At the very least, the campaigner should already have a DP locked into a contract or LOI.
  
  3) Look for creative, reasonable perks: Even though I was excited to hear The Last Fall was finished and heading to SXSW, I didn't donate because the idea of waiting until December to see the finished product was a dud. And for films shorter than 30-40 minutes, it doesn't seem realistic to expect people to donate $25 for a digital download AND a DVD - 1 or the other.
  
  4) Inquire if they've supported others' campaigns: I do pay attention to see if a person has backed or funded someone else's dream. If they haven't, that's a turn-off to me. I mean what's $3-$5 to help someone else when you expect people to donate that to you?
  
  Good luck and back to lurking I go :)

• Jeremy | June 15, 2012 5:02 PMReply

  i understand, but i'm a little put off by this. how can you speak of certain folks having the financial handicap in certain demographics, and feeling the worthwhile grassroots stories need to be told by any means necessary, but then talk of being tired of doing whats possible to support those stories. absolutely do not give your hard earned money to just any old body. but never get tired of doing the right thing. you may just fund the next great 'black' indie film and we'll have someone new to 'big-up' on s&a (or tear down. especially for the folks screaming for Tarantino's blood over DU. seriously, find something to be for instead of finding everything to be against. but by all means be careful and discerning.) I love S&A, and i'm really happy to see crowdfunding working for people with original, exciting, important content, and S&A's support of that. Like Dear White People, Wilmington on Fire, or even Awkward Black Girl. but i find this 'fatigue' and the echoes of it in the comments section a little disheartening.

• Dru B. | June 15, 2012 10:25 AMReply

  It is starting to grow weary and bothersome. But it's a necessary platform, we just have to continue to be selective by scrutinizing the project and people involved. One criteria that should apply is how far are they into the project and how much have they already accomplished/produced. Crowdfunding is starting to make some people lazy, and a project should only be up to continue it or push it forward. Therefore, if it's a series, it should have episodes/segments done, a film, production should have started or something.

• Donnie Leapheart | June 15, 2012 12:12 AMReply

  As a filmmaker that has both run a Kickstarter campaign AND (thankfully) had said campaign featured on this website by Tambay I can say a few things. Just being honest, I will NEVER launch another crowdfunding endeavor...Ever. Its a very humbling experience to say the least. By the end I felt like Mayor Tommy Carcetti in that scene from The Wire where he locks himself in a room to make fundraising calls to everyone he knows. I wouldn't go as far as calling it digital panhandling but I did catch myself feeling weird about the process occasionally. You have your hand out while playing a virtual guitar in a virtual subway station. That's what it came down to...even though the Shadow and Act team showed us LOTS of love by posting about our Kickstarter campaign, we didn't get many new donations as a result of it. The biggest plus that came from the S&A notice was a bump in exposure for the actual film project itself (which is just as important). The bulk of the actual monetary pledges primarily came from people we personally knew through social media and real life. After we successfully reached our goal, (for good karma) I pledged to another film that also reached its goal but then I noticed an epidemic beginning. I think we had our Kickstarter run at the tail end of the Golden Era. It was just before the time when the bulk of broke filmmakers were becoming hip to crowdfunding. Nowadays people are running campaigns for filmmaker trips to film festivals and/or wrap parties. I've seen people fail at one campaign then IMMEDIATELY launch another. Its a diluted mess. As for the question stated in the post: All I can say is to continue to be selective, show love to filmmakers that you like on a personal level and feel no guilt for not highlighting those that don't. Most people that graciously gave us money did so because they believed in US, not necessarily the individual project.

• Charlotte | June 28, 2012 12:02 PM

  What about Amanda Palmer? Her campaign is the crux of what all kickstarters, indiegogos etc should be. Give your following (or potential following) something of value and they'll buy it.
  
  There needs to be a perception shift from "donations" to "buying something" --you're buying something from an artist that you want to do well, not giving them a hand out.
  
  Definitely agree that it's completely saturated and a lot of people not going about it the best way but you're giving contributors something of incredible value in exchange for money.
  
  If it's good that is.

• Darkan | June 15, 2012 4:16 AM

  Not sure if many of you know about this but crowd funding is about to become something bigger than Kickstarter. Check this out :http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/22/2894054/us-senate-crowdfunding-act-bill-passed

• ShebaBaby | June 15, 2012 3:43 AM

  Applause! I am in complete agreement with everything you had to say here Donnie. I've never done a Kickstarter or an Indiegogo campaign but it really does seem like digital pan handling and I like Tambay have a bit of fatigue from it. I'm just waiting on the government to catch up to it and start regulating it with taxes and whatnot. But they may not since it's getting so over saturated that I think it's gonna play out soon. I too am a filmmaker with a film that I'm seeking financing for but I'm doing it the old fashioned way with a sharp business plan that I've hired professionals to help me put together and packaging my film as if I were an agent. Although I'm more interested in the creative side of film, I took a while off to just learn the business side of things. None of this side is glamorous or creative and I'm pretty tired of reading contracts and going over numbers BUT I feel that this is a necessary evil if we plan on being successful in this industry. I really think a lot of filmmakers sleep on the business side of things and until we wake up on that front, we'll continue to just keep on making content with no clue of how and/or where to get it distributed.

• Steph | June 15, 2012 12:04 AMReply

  You made a lot of great points here, Tambay, and I fundamentally disagree with Jabari's suggestion that it's your 'job' to sift through every email you get. Readers get campaign fatigue too, so posting 20 projects a day would dilute the effectiveness of posting the truly great ones. Keep doing what you've been doing and highlight the projects that speak to you. No one should be depending on your site to make or break their movie.

• Jabari Johnson | June 14, 2012 11:37 PMReply

  This article seems very "holier-than-thou" and the main issue is you are frustrated with the amount of croudfunding projects you get in your inbox on a daily basis. I'm going to start this comment off by saying that I submitted my Kickstarter project to S&A earlier in the week and then read this so this post hit close to home.
  
  To be frank, you have to realize who your audience is and the times we are living in. Kickstarter/indiegogo and a bunch of other crowdfunding services have made it possible for independent black filmmakers to create amazing projects that you wouldn't have seen otherwise. Let's face it, the game is changing. Who cares if you get 20 projects a day, if they are all amazing then post them all. The truth of the matter is we all know they won't be and it's your job as a media platform to make that distinction of quality yourself, complaining about the amount of emails you get is a wasted post that could have been someone's pitch video to let us know about a project.
  
  I really enjoy what this site is and does for black film so I'd challenge you to really evaluate the severity of your email issue and weigh it against the other challenges we face as black filmmakers in today's marketplace.

• NO BRAINER | June 15, 2012 1:03 PM

  This is the same author that thought "THE LAST FALL" was high quality story worth telling and it could fill a void, thus encouraging the author to post about its Kickstarter campaign constantly. Smdh.

• Charles Judson | June 15, 2012 12:15 PM

  I wouldn't dismiss the amount of emails folks get. Filmmakers are generally bad--excuse me, BAD--at utilizing emails to their advantage and not adding to the slog that an inbox can become. As a festival programmer at one point I was 4,000 emails behind. Not 40, not 400, 4,000. When I was communications director, I could get a 1,000 to 2,000 emails behind. When I was writing film reviews and covering films 6 years ago, I could get 5 or 600 emails behind in a few days easily. And that that's not counting the FB, Twitter or personal email messages we now get as well. It may sound like complaining, but it's not. Because reading a message isn't just reading a message. It's also a combination of doing some basic Google research, looking up info, making a decision, executing some project and then crafting a reply. God forbid a filmmaker rambles on before they make their point or ask a question. The whole point of what a lot of us do is to be the best resource we can possibly be for filmmakers and for the communities we serve. The more useless, lack, or overload of information we get, the more difficult that can become as the number of emails increase. Twenty emails doesn't sound like much, but that's 1000 projects per year. How many projects are highlighted on S&A in a year and how many get the multi-post treatment and are revisited? How many of those projects appear once never to resurface and how many came back into S&A's notice two or three years later? How many of those turn out to be scams or bad bets? Keep in mind, my day job is working for a film festival, so most of the emails I get are directly related to my pay check. Tambay, Sergio and Vanessa and others on here have day jobs or are in school, and S&A is a labor of love. When I was at CinemATL doing film reviews I spent about 3 to $5,000 of my own money on equipment, travel, etc. over 3 years. I wouldn't be surprised if any one at a site like S&A told me they had and are doing the same. Don't take this as complaining. I wouldn't have my job now if I hadn't done any of that and I still willingly spend my own money, sometimes several hundred dollars a pop, to the frustration of people I work with. But, filmmakers can make help themselves and the people they are contacting by being more focused and purposeful in how they communicate with folks. As well as be more strategic and realize that not sending an email, till they're truly ready, is just as important as getting their message out. By the way Jabari, I looked up your campaign. I have to say, you unfortunately demonstrate my frustration with many Kickstarter campaigns. I'm totally on board with what you're saying in your campaign about chasing dreams, but you don't actually show folks how your interview show is different. There's A LOT of shows and blogs out there. I'm not saying by any means your show is bad, just that if I had to go off yay or nay for your show only on the Kickstarter video, I'd be mostly indifferent. Is it Ali G style, or are you more Oprah? Does your show have a unique structure? What kind of documentary style is it, one on one, do you interview other people in the person's life? Is it over the course of a project per artist, or over the course of the day? Do you get exclusives? And as with all filmmakers, I would like to know more about you. What makes you stand out? If I was to ask you what is the Jabari Johnson brand, what your answer be?

• Dru B. | June 15, 2012 10:43 AM

  I think you guys mis-read Jabari's comment, and I think Jabari mis-read Tambay's purpose of the original post. First, what I think Jabari is saying is (to paint a picture) this post may be comparable to a music blogger or A&R complaining about receiving demos/songs, regardless of good or bad. I think Tambay was just trying to promote conversation on the topic and wrote it from an "everyman" POV and not an "S&A professional" POV. So let's embrace the dialogue and not let feelings flare because let's face it, we all get more emails than we'd like.
  
  P.S. Jabari's project speaks to what I think the crowdfunding criteria should be. He's already self-produced a season of his docu-series which made an impact (successful) and is trying to push forward on his own terms with minimal help from the "suits".
  
  I hope I made some sense of this.

• Nicole | June 15, 2012 1:15 AM

  @Jabari: See Donnie Leapheart's comment? That's how you respond to someone YOU are asking for help who IS NOT obligated to help you. S & A is not your personal PR dept and you should be grateful that platforms like this exist so you can pitch your ideas and ask for help.

• the black police | June 15, 2012 12:23 AM

  Oh no, Tambay! Have mercy!

• Tambay | June 15, 2012 12:01 AM

  And ladies and gents, this is one way to virtually guarantee that your Kickstarter campaign won't be posted here. Good luck to you sir.

• Tambay | June 14, 2012 11:24 PMReply

  Thanks to everyone who chimed in. Much appreciated. I think I know how to tackle this now. Let's see how it goes.

• Jabari Johnson | June 15, 2012 12:38 PM

  @Dru B: You got it sir. It's almost like how everyone seems to be a musician today, the reason is because the barrier to entry is so low. Thank you for the kind words on the project.
  
  @Nicole: Yes that is how I respond. Of course I'm grateful for sites like S&A that's exactly why I pitched my project. I'm engaging in healthy discussion about how I feel on this topic and from Tambay's post it seems that he is annoyed by the volume of requests he gets and in turn might skip over some quality content. I am in the same space on the music side and I understand that it's not my job to "put people on" but when I get the chance I do listen and I do consider things that are pitched to me, especially if they are pitched correctly. I understand what my role as someone in media is and what is expected of me sometimes.
  
  @Tambay: I also see my Kickstarter campaign link that I posted has been deleted. I can only assume that you took it out and that is a low blow. This is your site so do what you feel but I didn't comment on this post to "self promote". I included that link to show people that I am not running a "campaign for filmmaker trips to film festivals and/or wrap parties" as Donnie mentioned above but something that is inspiring and necessary for youth culture. This post was asking what you should do and I stated what I felt. You have to be ready for criticism when you put up a post like this just as I do when I'm asking people to back my project. Of course I didn't think you were going to write about my campaign after writing a post like this. All I'm saying at the end of the day is I don't think crowdfunding sites are going anywhere because anything that makes it easier for people to create is always going to win. If you don't want to support these projects with posts on S&A, fine. But if you do want to write about some the only way to separate the good from the bad (or the good from the great) is to check them out and make the decision yourself. You can always hire an intern for that.
  
  So back to @Nicole this is the game, people are going to support and some people are not but just as Tambay can write a an article

• Nicole | June 14, 2012 7:48 PMReply

  Maybe a short list of criteria would help or at least eliminate the expectation that just because they send campaigns, you'll automatically post it. It may also cut down on the number of requests you receive. Of course that could be a catch-22...you may miss out on receiving some interesting films that don't meet the "criteria" and were never sent in. *shrug*
  
  There doesn't seem to be a quick solution to this. Just keep posting the campaigns/films that interest you and are in line with the vision of S&A. If you wanted to post the 20+ you receive each week, you could do a general posting(maybe bi-weekly)with the names of the films and let S&A readers do the research on their own to decide if they want to support.
  
  I don't think you should post one a day. That may cause some S&A reader fatigue.

• Charles Judson | June 15, 2012 4:52 PM

  Cool. I'd still recommend going a little bit deeper. Explaining your process, how you find subjects, how you do your research, how you make sure each act fits the overall theme, can be useful. Especially for potential new audiences, but also in giving you something you can show subjects who might be wary, or have been burned in the past. When I say people are doing the same thing, it's no joke. There are lots of people not talking gossip or negativity so don't rest on that alone. As an example, this year alone we got 5 documentaries on Glass Blowing. 5. On a topic that 99% of the viewing public wouldn't seek out. So the question is, how do you make a Glass Blowing doc that stands out and makes people want to see it. If you can think of it, so can someone else. The more you can make your show unique, the more you can brand your show with its own structure and elements, the better. Keep it moving man, I'm impressed with $15k with 15 days to go, that says a lot about how people feel about your show and how they are willing to support it. But always ask yourself how can I make this just a little bit different, how can I go left when everyone is going right, how can I surprise people and make them excited they watched and how can I convey that to people who haven't watched the show. Thanks for elaborating more.

• Jabari Johnson | June 15, 2012 1:01 PM

  @Charles I forgot to include you in my other response. I think you articulated Tambay's post a bit better. I tried to answer most of your questions in the V/O of my Kickstarter video but the trick with Kickstarter is you want to make an impact in a short amount of time. I chose not to put clips of stuff that we have shot for the 2nd season in the pitch video because I have an entire first season that I developed an audience from and knows that my work is of a certain quality. The style of Jabari Presents SE2 is a one-on-one doc where an artist takes me into their day to day life and I try to examine what makes them stand out. In the second season I'm really trying to inspire others in my generation through these influencers stories and show just how much work is necessary to obtain any success in any field. I stand out because I'm not talking about gossip and negativity but telling stories of young people who are inspiring. My approach if very conversational and I have a documentary film background so it's more than a traditional interview with the people I decide to shoot pieces on for this series. I hope that gave you a little more insight on me, thanks for asking Charles.

• Jabari Johnson | June 15, 2012 12:42 PM

  ...I can write a rebuttal.

• B Nicole | June 14, 2012 11:14 PM

  I like the idea of a weekly general posting with a quick logline of each project along with their link. It's brief and to the point and if the logline doesn't interest me then I can just check out the next one without investing a lot of time.

• FilmGuy | June 14, 2012 7:23 PMReply

  Most people ask for too much! They say "Hey, I'm an unproven filmmaker, but I'd like $20,000 to make a short film." Really? You're telling me you couldn't do something creative with $1000 instead? I'd be more likely to put my money behind the person that's done several really creative small-budget projects than to risk wasting money on a big flop. And remember, at the end of the day, films are made for an audience --entertain me or be done with the digital prostituting.

• NO BRAINER | June 15, 2012 12:51 PM

  Before I respect this, I would like to know your full definition of a "proven filmmaker."

• Nicole | June 14, 2012 8:29 PM

  Good points Filmguy.

• Kia | June 14, 2012 6:41 PMReply

  I would have loved to be in on the conversation that precipitated this post. It's a revolving door. I'm so tired of the crowdfunding requests, yet I know that all of us, may have to go that route as an additional source of funding.
  
  As for how I decide to choose: mostly based on if I know the filmmaker or talent attached. That doesn't equate to a burgeoning desire to "see" the project realized, but majority of the time it's a you supported me, so I'm supporting you type of thing or vice versa. You know the deal: give to get.
  
  One suggestion I would put out there is don't have perks you can't sustain or satisfy. This hurts the next filmmakers chance because if someone has a bad experience with crowdfunding--that's it, they will NEVER give again. Another suggestion would be for filmmakers to stop lying about "why" they need the money. If you already made your movie and now you want to be reimbursed, that's not cool. So, I'll most likely support financially if the reason is legit--I can usually tell if it's not (which goes back to why I original give--it's who you know).

• NO BRAINER | June 15, 2012 12:47 PM

  You're being honest and I have to respect that. I agree with you for the most part.

• NinaG | June 14, 2012 6:22 PMReply

  I agree with DUI. I'm more likely to support projects where it seems the team has already really invested in the film. I "run the other way" when I see overdone topics (e.g. black women & hair) or when I see newbies with project descriptions or trailers that are a bit too vague/first-drafty

• NO BRAINER | June 15, 2012 12:45 PM

  You might as well say the name of the supposed filmmaker you're referring to with this comment. We all know who you're talking about.

• Charles Judson | June 14, 2012 6:14 PMReply

  Here are some ideas: 1) Heed the advice of the sites, shorter the campaign the better. Anything over 30 days tends to be tiring. 2) Build up your Facebook, Twitter presence and identity several months before you launch your campaign. You want people responding on a personal level and pitching for you. If you've created a relationship with your followers, they tend to react with more positivity. Even more so if they're anticipating your project. 3) Think small. Be targeted. Going for a more focused goal is more effective than "fund my entire movie". 4) If you can create something unique, crazy or fun to give away as a reward that will get people talking and help the project go viral, do it. 6) Treat your Kickstarter starter campaign like a pitch, only if it was made by someone else. If someone else can't pitch your campaign in only a few sentences and do it with excitement rethink your campaign. 7) Think in bullet points. People don't need to know everything about your project and why you're doing it. Anything beyond 4 or 5 points and you've lost them, and one of those points should be your big hook that you build the pitch around. 8) Look at the projects in your area and see what's out there and see what's working or not. 9) Avoid the cliches of telling people how unique, amazing, different, or not like X, your project is going to be and not focus on why your project matters to you and your crew and what the money will do. 10) Update strategy #1: Use your updates to tell a story. Don't sit on your ass waiting for money to come. Tell people in update #3 you had a casting session and in #5 you found your lead. Or, you had hopes that something would work in #2 and didn't, but in #3 you found away around it. Make people feel they're part of something that's active not passive. 11) Update strategy #2: Map out your updates and create what you can before hand so they'll reveal something new about your production and won't repeat information. 12) Update strategy #3: If 10 and 11 are prohibitive, just be personable and open, and treat the updates more like a blog. Don't be Hype Man. 13) Don't whine about where you aren't in the campaign. So many campaigns get 50% or more of their money in the last week of the campaign. 14) Something I forgot about relationships and storytelling. Be telling your story, not just promoting your film, before you launch the campaign. Your story about how you're making your film shouldn't start with the campaign, the campaign should be in the middle or near the end of your film's journey. Again, if it's at the beginning, it feels more like a replacement for funding and not part of something larger. As Big Styles points out, DEAR WHITE PEOPLE seems like a project on the way to succeeding and not a something that could succeed or could fail.

• Jug | June 14, 2012 6:55 PM

  Totally agree. I've supported a couple of projects thru Kickstarter & some made it & some didn't but the ones that did followed alot of what you said Charles, especially making people feel a part of the process with short but timely updates & always positive, even if there is a "setback." And they'd already put their time & money in it, they just needed that little umph, even if the little was 50 grand. The ones that I supported that didn't make it tended to have updates spaced waay too far apart, the pitch was more "if you're Black you should do it" and the killer was "My idea, you pay for it." LOL Guess that didn't work out so well...

• Charles Judson | June 14, 2012 6:35 PM

  Some how skipped number 5. So 5) Be mysterious. Don't tell anybody nothing and assume they'll just get it.

• Rodney | June 14, 2012 6:01 PMReply

  Why not charge a small fee for posting a crowdfunding campaign on the blog? You should clearly mark the post as "paid" so readers will know that you have not officially endorsed the underlying project. Not sure if indieWire will allow it though...

• NO BRAINER | June 15, 2012 12:41 PM

  You had me until you said "mark the post as 'paid'". That's making a distinction that will only encourage Tambay loyalist to support films without the "paid" label, and ignore the ones with it, citing that it's not credible if the almighty Tambay doesn't approve.

• Dui | June 14, 2012 5:48 PMReply

  Honestly, I know how you feel. For me, I support people who are supporting themselves.
  
  I've seen some filmmakers that have done numerous shorts and I saw supporting them necessary to see them continuing to progress themselves and their art. BUT it gets very tiresome to see filmmakers, who've never done anything sending emails to support the "hit film." EVERYBODY has dreams and I'm a dream supporter! But I have a hard time supporting people who lack the fortitude to invest in themselves first.
  
  I've supported numerous campaigns and will continue to do so, as long as I've seen them take those first few steps on their journey on their own two feet.

• NO BRAINER | June 15, 2012 12:38 PM

  After reading your comment, I find it difficult to believe that you even support ALL those who are supporting themselves.

• Big Styles | June 14, 2012 5:38 PMReply

  Crowd Sourced film funding is a necessity, especially for urban audiences. So I vote for more posts about fund raising projects, and I suggest you create a list of standards that a project has to meet to get posted on S&A. The first rule of the internet is: BE EXCEPTIONAL. An exceptionally good or bad project doesn't have to do much to have success online. As a traditionally underserved audience, this is a chance for urban audiences to truly vote with our wallets for exceptional projects. I saw "Dear White People" on S&A yesterday and promptly gave them my money. Nothing succeeds like success, so I say put it all out there and let the cream rise to the top.

• NO BRAINER | June 15, 2012 12:35 PM

  He doesn't have a list of standards so, nice try...