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VH1 Strikes Again! Orders "Hollywood Exes" Starring Ex-Wives Of Eddie Murphy, Will Smith, Prince, R. Kelly

Television
by Tambay A. Obenson
March 21, 2012 9:52 PM
40 Comments
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No comment from me on this... why bother... I'll just deliver the news and let you guys do the talking, so here ya go from THR:

The unscripted show, which has been granted a 10-episode order... stars Nicole Murphy (formerly Mrs. Eddie Murphy), Jessica Canseco (formerly Mrs. Jose Canseco), Sheree Fletcher (formerly Mrs. Will Smith), Mayte Garcia (formerly Mrs. Prince) and Andrea Kelly (formerly Mrs. R. Kelly).

“These extraordinarily strong women adjusted to and endured a lot while their ex-spouses won fame and fortune defining pop culture for that moment,” said Jeff Olde, executive vp original programming and production at VH1. "Now these women must reinvent themselves again, stepping out of the long shadows cast by their famous husbands and supporting each other as they define the next stage of their lives – this time on their own terms,” he added. T

he tentatively titled Hollywood Exes sets out to peel back the curtain on Cinderella tales gone wrong. The five women have been friends for several years and are looking to make a name for themselves outside of their bold-face exes.

And by the way, it'll be an hour-long series.

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40 Comments

  • CareyCarey | March 28, 2012 10:41 AMReply

    ***Hollering ahead*** "Hey Nadine, please come back". @ Nadine, woman, you know you can write. Yes sir, you have skills. However, you've completely flipped the script with your last 2 posts...March 27, 2012 10:55 AM & March 27, 2012 10:40 AM. I mean... my words---> "Simply put, I believe tv & film do not warrant all the blame and "power" that many black folks so freely give it". But nooooo, you drove off the road to "The nineties was a fricking' Renaissance for Black people BECAUSE of the media and its reach to Blacks outside of Northeast Hip Hop and better representation on television and in movies... The Golden age of Hip Hop, the voice of the young Black lower to upper middle class normalizing vocabulary, deep lyrics, a multitude of skills, an awareness of self and community, a renaissance". WOW Nadine... "I" (and I assume Blutopaz) was referring to early learned behavior, not the gradual shaping of new trends. I do not believe I, nor Blutopaz, ever said "the media" was not and has never been used as a form of propaganda. So Miss tired editor... "Ya'll WENT OFF"??? *side-eye* :-)

  • Nadine | March 29, 2012 9:15 PM

    @CC - I am so ashamed of you right now. I KNOW you didn't edit my "BTW - The nineties was a fricking' Renaissance for Black people BECAUSE...." down to "The nineties was ..."... clearly, my "BTW" was a PS after my super LONG post on SOCIAL POLICY that addressed your "Simply put, I believe tv & film do not warrant all the blame and 'power' that many black folks so freely give it" statement, which according to your "However, you've completely flipped the script with your last 2 posts", you must have read. Come now CC! That's not nice. You're totally misrepresenting my statements, which I don't think you've ever done before! You're hurting my heart... I do type quickly so I often write too much so I understand the perception of going off, but that just means I was not framing my arguments clearly and I was, admittedly, being lazy by making assumptions that I should have spelled out, but I was, and am "tuckered out". The nineties was basically the last hurrah before this Black cultural Ice Age that we are experiencing (in the U.S. - thriving elsewhere) therefore I find it important to cite it, whenever possible, because it, the nineties in the U.S., is historical and should be looked upon as the fruition of the struggles of the post-Jim Crow Era, the Civil Rights movement, Black Nationalism and the Affirmative action policies in the workplace (which, again, White women benefited the most, don't let anyone tell you otherwise) and in higher education. Man,.. I'm supposed to be doing a drive-by and you have me STILL writing about this. Your point is Black people need to raise their children and the media, specifically TV & Film have nothing do with teaching your child to behave. I had two points; 1) I say the parents got "effed" up by the media in their formative years (just giving birth to or fathering a child [if that] does not make you suddenly become responsible) and 2) those who control the media also control the "hearts and minds" of policymakers and voters who know next to nothing about people of color, but believe they do based on fictionalized cultural expressions of Blacks in TV and film thereby enacting social policies that are more harmful than helpful (aid as opposed the long-term policies regarding education and jobs) in this day and age which is shameful and effects the day-to-day lives of people of color (including their children). Let's agree to disagree.

  • who cares | March 22, 2012 11:36 PMReply

    prince was famous before mayte stepped in the picture. some of these people have been divorced for years get over it!

  • BluTopaz | March 22, 2012 10:14 PMReply

    "this time on their own terms,” with $100,000 per month alimony payments that is. And they will def get a bunch of silly female fans of all colors watching this drivel.

    Aside from all that, in that pic Nicole looks like a light skinned Eddie-lol

  • Miles Ellison | March 22, 2012 7:24 PMReply

    “These extraordinarily strong women adjusted to and endured a lot while their ex-spouses won fame and fortune defining pop culture for that moment,” said Jeff Olde, executive vp original programming and production at VH1. "Now these women must reinvent themselves again, stepping out of the long shadows cast by their famous husbands and supporting each other as they define the next stage of their lives – this time on their own terms."

    So how does the hair pulling, drink throwing, screaming, and wearing short skirts with no underwear fit in with all that?

  • PatriciaW | March 22, 2012 12:09 PMReply

    Any chance this will actually be a show about, not the men they used to be married to, not a bunch of loud-talking, backbiting, gossiping, fighting, but about women supporting women as they make the most of their lives?

  • JMac | March 22, 2012 1:45 PM

    Well, the Salt N Pepa show was like that (the first season) but I guess no one was interested in it. Shame. It was the only time I broke my no reality show rule. Episode with Iyanla still makes me cry. Watching them take the family down to Gena and join the protest march was cool too.

  • sandra | March 22, 2012 1:08 PM

    @PATRICIAW - I know this is a rhetorical question, but I'll answer. There's no fun in a show like the one you're describing! The execs are pushing for the next Basketball Wives. No form of behavior is too low. The ladies will receive ample coaching to reach the level of depravity the execs require. The slightest sign of sisterhood and support will cost the "actress" a spot. She will be replaced for being boring. You have to give them a show.

  • Monique A. Williams | March 22, 2012 10:59 AMReply

    When you have Black women who would rather air their dirty laundry than make a legitimate living, you have little girls who grow up to think that this is the model for success. I cry for our daughters.

  • Nadine | March 29, 2012 9:18 PM

    @URBANAUTEUR - "THE GREATEST SHAME EVER SOLD", wooo... isn't that the truth.. We were donzo after "Didster"... locked out of our own cultural expressions and sold to the highest bidder...

  • urbanauteur | March 29, 2012 8:15 PM

    @NADINE, you're as right as rain,...THE GREATEST SHAME EVER SOLD(ie:P.Diddy,circa1997), to quote 80's proto-feminists/soul group-CLIMAX_ thats
    when they met in the ladies room and thats when it all went down...thanx 4 the trip down memory lane;-)

  • Nadine | March 27, 2012 10:55 AM

    BTW - The nineties was a fricking' Renaissance for Black people BECAUSE of the media and its reach to Blacks outside of Northeast Hip Hop and better representation on television and in movies (too many to list, wouldn't know where to start). The Golden age of Hip Hop, the voice of the young Black lower to upper middle class normalizing vocabulary, deep lyrics, a multitude of skills, an awareness of self and community, a renaissance. @Blutopaz, I do not believe you are close enough in generation to see where the actual disconnect occurs, you were in the New York area, I believe and might have been a young adult at the time. Look, one can pinpoint the death of Biggie Smalls and Puff Daddy's entre' and proven acceptance into mainstream America (STING singing with FAITH on stage to eulogize Biggie Smalls), as the beginning of the end of the Black Awareness Renaissance of the late eighties to mid-nineties, whose final hope lied in Neo-Soul which P-Diddy had no part of and was not finding success until Lauryn Hill (who appealed to the mainstream to the chagrin of white females) left the scene leaving only Badu, Scott, Bilal types (not so commercial) and the Roots to salvage that moment in time. Diddy caught hold and, like a drug dealer or pimp, sold cultural credibility to corporations who believe that what worked for them in the past, financing gangsta music, would work again especially if the drug dealing rappers were footing some of the bill through their "street" dealings. @Blutopaz - Again, I don't understand how you can give such kudos to your generation if both of your arguments are that the parents are supposed to raise these kids. Then HOW could your generation be so grand and have their kids f&ck up so? My generation is not old enough yet to have raised kids into their teens, the same one's you have no patience for, that's ya'll, but what I'm saying is that CULTURALLY there was a change in the zeitgeist and it was driven by the commodification of "regionality" in music and media. Everything had to come either out of the South, or some renowned housing project or gang-centric neighborhood. Suddenly there was only ONE type of Black person in this country and our once diverse group with underlying African principles very much STRONGLY based on communalism (see Hip Hop, Neo-Soul and R&B), became no more. Our culture was sold to corporations for them to determine who and what we were. They supported self-financed drug dealing voices while sending our true ambassadors of music to drop rhymes and tour overseas (Tribe Called Quest, Arrested Development, etc...). There is too much to say, but I've got to get back to editing.

  • Nadine | March 27, 2012 10:40 AM

    Ya'll WENT OFF while I was away! I'm still working non-stop for another week, but stopped by S&A to see if they were covering the "RUE"-haha over Hunger Games its female fans reactions to the casting of a "Black" actress, a child, as the character of RUE who, in the book, is described as having dark brown skin and dark brown eyes. Anyway, I see you all have continued... I'll say something quickly, but will probably not have time for a response for days. My point is that yeah, sociology and socioeconomics is big, but THEY ARE EXPRESSIONS OF SOCIAL POLICY. The media HAS A MAJOR EFFECT ON SOCIAL POLICY. The institution of slavery was a SOCIAL POLICY. Laws restricting reading and writing then and inadequate schools in the 70's was SOCIAL POLICY. "The Malcolm Wiener Center for Social Policy at Harvard University describes it as 'public [social] policy and practice in the areas of health care, human services, criminal justice, inequality, education, and labor." All areas that affect the day to day lives of people of color. All areas that people of color had no control over for centuries. Abolitionists used media to sway the general public into believing that Southern policy, upheld by the fed, was a disgrace. The media was used to lose the election for John Adams' (who was amazing) second term, Jefferson was ruthless. Newspaper media, and most importantly cartoonists were used to depict and to "rightfully villify the Titans of industry, but not unlike some of today's blogs and National Enquirers, trashy media was used to take down leaders such as Marie Antoinette (she didn't have a chance they were out for her blood). The U.S. REG-U-LARLY "uses" the media to change the opinion of people in other countries before any man is to pick up arms. I mean the list goes on over the importance of the media, which for the U.S. and its populations, is mostly moving image (film, t.v. - including music videos) based, because we are NOW a nation of illiterates. @Bluto, I can't say that I've read most of what you've written (I'm in a rush), but I saw your comment to CC just below. HOW are you all the last generation of people who know how to act if you believe that the duty to raise the children is solely in the hand of the caregivers. These children were not birthed out of cabbage patches. I'm sorry, your generation was not on point, but that was due to social policies that allowed for failures in things such as labor, education, housing, etc...that were put in place in the seventies (but extensions of destructive policies towards Blacks for centuries) which then made it excusable for really bad PR for Black folks. Hello, can you say Reagan, Welfare queens, the crack eighties and criminal justice? Can you say buildings burned down by landlords displacing thousands of Black and Latinos in exchange for insurance money (allowed by social policy) making Black and Latino areas into war zones and havens for crack dealers? My thing is, those who put these policies in place are not affected personally or immediately by its affects, but they are affected by what THEY THINK THEY KNOW through television where we dehumanized Black people (80s) and made it possible to, without impunity, send a darker skinned man or woman to jail for a crime that a Black lighter skinned man or woman also committed but received a lighter sentence since they were not the face of television and movie crime. When "they" see you as only "this", they make policies and decisions based on what they THINK they know (see Santorum and Palin) which then affects our lives in the home. Black men without an education and a JOB (labor policies) - too much pressure to try to provide something they just don't have (which can make them angry). The Irish immigrants of new York refused to work alongside blacks in the creation of Central park. They stopped work until all Blacks were fired. JOBS. Money guaranteed for two years to new Americans, denied to Blacks who'd been toiling for centuries. Centuries of men, leaving homes, domestic abuse, etc...becuase they could not take care of their families or temselves the way they would have liked. Now Colorism is just in your face OKAY because rappers have no shame and are not pandering to Black people, but to Whites. Black dudes, in certain areas of the country, are just freely talking about the value of this woman over that because Colorism, though always in existence, has become POLICY through media (because it does not affect White women negatively). The list does not end. So these expectations you have of Black people who have not been historically allowed to participate in America's CLASS system thereby confining Blacks to a CASTE system, are soooo much greater than that other human beings on this planet who have, for centuries, been in poverty or have lacked "ACCESS" - the "Untouchables" of India, the "chavs" of the UK (whites), the Palestinians... Centuries of cultural policies which are now only being toppled by activism and media coverage of inequalities and the social policies enacted as a result.

  • CareyCarey | March 26, 2012 2:45 PM

    Blutopaz, Ya'ke Smith is the director of the film "Wolf". S & A's Vanessa interviewed him and his cast ( podcast here----> http://blogs.indiewire.com/shadowandact/fc604080-7552-11e1-bcc4-123138165f92 . The post didn't get much play (I was the lone comment) but his words were very insightful. If that link does not work, just flip back a few pages and I am sure y'all find it. S & A said it's was one of the better films at the SXSW Film Festival.

  • BluTopaz | March 24, 2012 9:15 PM

    Carey, I have had similiar convos with friends about where this generational disconnect is from. A friend and I went to a free outdoor Earth Wind & Fire concert last summer. We had a blast, everyone singing along, dancing, etc. I didn't hear or see anyone showing out, except for the one drunk lady who kept accidentally stepping on my foot and even she kept apologizing with 'i'm so sorry sista, you know i just had a lil taste before i got here' which cracked me up. Afterwards you had several hundred mostly 40+ year old Black people leave this venue together, people still singing, telling other Black folks we never saw before to get home safely, etc. My friend looked at me and said 'we are the LAST generation of Black people who know how to act' and we laughed. And you also mentioned being around young people at different stages in their development. You said: "Niggaz... mommas, babies daddy, friends and family were plantting those seeds" And I don't understand why these "film critics" as you astutely noted do not see this. We have survived different forms of genocide, now dealing with racial profiling from cops and sociopaths without badges-- we are going to be destroyed by media images of us? Ok.

    Question: Who is Ya'ke Smith? I love that quote you posted, but I am not familiar with this person--thank you for including it!

  • BluTopaz | March 24, 2012 8:51 PM

    @ LAURA--a little while after I wrote that I realized how wrong that comment was. You are right, sometimes you don't even know who is from a Caribbean or West African family if they have American accents.

  • Laura | March 24, 2012 8:24 PM

    @Blutopaz, ummm, I have to correct on the 2nd and 3rd generation West Indian . They are a hot mess too. At least the families I work with in Crown Heights & Flatbush, Brooklyn. They are off the chain. And I will tell you another thing. The children from poor West African immigrants who live in East New York and Brownsville, Brooklyn.. (not the middle class immigrant populace in Queens and other parts of Brooklyn) are not too far behind.
    @Nadine, there behavior is not based on what they see on TV. It's based on family and social dysfunction.

  • CareyCarey | March 24, 2012 7:40 PM

    I have to jump back in with what I consider as highlights. 1.) "I refuse to think media is the cause of this much self hatred. If a girl aspires to be Nikki Minaj/Rihanna and not Janelle Monae or Esperanza Spaulding, what do we blame then" ~Blutopaz. 2.) "hell Sesame Street taught me how to read before I started pre-school" ~Blutopaz. 3.) "This kind of behavior is either taught at home, the streets, or your family is working to correct it" ~Blutopaz. 4.) "Can you simply write for me, so I can understand, where you believe the major influences come from in this modern age?" ~ Nadine. 5.) "I seriously doubt they learned all that negative behavior from watching reality tv. We can't blame the media for everything. Why wouldn't they admire Michelle Obama or Oprah INSTEAD?"~ Blutopaz

  • BluTopaz | March 24, 2012 7:09 PM

    Meant to add, believing we have no control over our behavior other than what's thrown at us is handing over a LOT of power to people who don't give a damn about us.

  • BluTopaz | March 24, 2012 6:57 PM

    @ NADINE:

    What does telling the truth about what you have seen have to do with being miserable, pigeonholing or restraining kids of color. Did you ever think about why you seldom see African or West Indian kids on the train acting out this way (at least I don't)--it's because 1) their parents are telling them not to act like Americans and 2) their family structures are often different-even if they are second and third generation Americans. They and their parents are subjected to the SAME images we are, yet somehow they are able to escape the big bad media boogeyman that turns American kids into the ones we are talking about. And I never said these kids are hopeless, but you made a comment earlier about some of the "dangerous" comments you have seen on this thread. I think believing Black people are simplistic empty vessels that we are so easily guided by it is stupid. I know you want to use whatever you learned in Media Imagery 101 class about the reach of negative images (I took that same course) but at some point you need to realize you are not doing anyone any favors by laying blame anywhere else other than the people who shape the lives of these kids everyday. When I see girls acting like wannabe gangstas out in the street, my first thought is what would their parents think about this, and do they have anyone telling them that's not how women behave; not which television show did they watch to learn that behavior. I watched a group of very young Black boys curse out and then spit on a White woman on the train recently. One of them said 'if my mother was here she would curse that b___ out' and I totally believed him. This topic kinda hits a chord with me, because I'm extra tired of seeing young Black people showing their behinds like this and no, I don't blame media for it. I don't have children-why do I need to be subjected to Bebe's Kids several times a week after a hard days work--Even most rap music which I abhor, would not be as influential if so many young Black males did not have people in their lives telling them misogyny is part of our culture. This kind of behavior is either taught at home, the streets, or your family is working to correct it. And I do understand how media can affect us, no one here is stupid and there are no "disconnects". I am a major advocate of seeing positive images of Black women everywhere for adults and young girls-I think organizations like Black Girls Rock are doing a fantastic job putting the spotlight on dynamic Black women in many professions. And I won't lie that having someone like Michelle Obama as FLOTUS does my heart good, even as a grown woman. But I am not going to weep and beat my breast over yet another reality tv show with a bunch of loud, screaming Black females when all folks have to do is shut it off or better yet, get rid of cable like I did years ago. Families need to work harder, I get that previous generations were babysat by television (hell Sesame Street taught me how to read before I started pre-school) but now families need to actually work in combating all the garbage thrown at us.

  • Nadine | March 24, 2012 3:24 PM

    @BLUTOPAZ - "My mother and oldest sister. It was their responsibility to make sure I learned to respect myself, NOT the media or whichever other industries you are blathering on about. " - you... WOW!!! I had not seen that posting from you before I wrote my last post regarding the kids on the subway below. Okay.. PLEASE IGNORE EVERYTHING I just wrote in that post - WAAAAY beyond your spirit, as is my argument. I guess I should pigeon-hole you as you do those young girls... all I know, whatever you have to say after this... you're still going to be a miserable person. Be you... I'm glad I'm not.

  • Nadine | March 24, 2012 3:15 PM

    I said I was going to leave this alone... because I really am having difficulty understanding our disconnects on the importance and magnitude of the media on a people whose culture has been foreclosed upon. @BLUTOPAZ - I was one of those girls on the NYC subway. Especially as child of the arts going to and from Manhattan, what?!?!?. My BOCA was MUY GRANDE. The VILE things I'd said as a teenager would put those girl to shame. There are restraints placed on children of color when it comes to expressing themselves which more often than not can lead to a lack of verbal control and more later. This is for a number of reasons, including poverty, stress of a single parent or dysfunctional living environment who has too much on their plate therefore conversations you get the "sit down and be quiet", or the kind of preacher's kid syndrome, etc... The freedom for kids to talk and question without restraint is an important CODE OF POWER that OUR kids are not typically privy so you get the opposite as they grow older when they are out of the parental eye. Honestly, those were my teen years with my girlfriends and male friends, at the same time I was excelling in school, in sports, had a couple of gigs in the "arts", classical musician, ballerina... I'm just saying...maybe we don't know who these girls are and what their "noise" means. As I grew older, I became one of the adults on the train shakin' my head, but, I'm not sayin' that this is what you should do because things are a little different now, but I just want to point out to you that I would walk up to these little sisters and boys and tell them about resources all over Manhattan that had to do with the Arts & Sciences... THEY ALWAYS ATE IT UP and would see me on the train and give me updates. They'd return to their conversations, but not be vile. They do understand respect. These kids need direction and people who believe in them, but they don't know where to find it; they're also super sweet, but put up walls of bravodo/a. I approached different kids FOR YEARS and they still have access to me whenever they need me. I got some to become production assistants on some pretty major projects when I was still a baby and they have since moved up. Others, you know, went to college simply because people, again, believed in them. Up until 2006-ish I was keeping in touch with a good number of them regularly, but now their grown. I'm just saying, if you look at these kids as something other than a nuisance or vehicles for shame, something greater could happen. These kids are ready to be reached and affirmed and what we are able to do one-on-one, the media can do worldwide and can be used for their good as well as ours, but my point again is that as much as media can change a society, it can ruin... I am not proofing this (workin'), hope this makes sense.

  • CareyCarey | March 24, 2012 3:11 PM

    @ Blutopaz, great Chris Rock joke and SO TRUE! I was wondering if anyone was feeling or understood my position? So it was nice to see you arrive. I was questioning whether or not my position was clear. Simply put, I believe tv & film do not warrant all the blame and "power" that many black folks so freely give it. When you came with your story about the interventions of your mother and your older sister, I said, "YES, that's what I'm talking about". Also, similar to your bus stories, I've been around black youths in various stages of thier life. I had a youth summer track team and I was the president and a coach of little league baseball (in the hood). And, I've worked in drug & alcohol treatment centers. So I've personally seen and heard the dynamics which shapes the character of man. Most of it had absolutely nothing to do with images on tv and films. Niggaz... mommas, babies daddy, friends and family were plantting those seeds. Seriously, in reference to pre-teens, I'm talking about 6-7-8-9 year olds acting like disrespectful ignorant damn fools, and the apple did not fall far from the tree. I agree, the root of the problem is much much deeper than some "film critics" want to admit or understand. They have a great rally cry which seems to fall into the catagory of favorable popular opinion, but I am sick of hearing it. As you pointed out and I'll say it again--->How do we combat ignorance, racism, poverty, etc, and at what age do we begin to plant the right seeds?Granted, as Ya'ke Smith said, films are like holding a mirror to the world. However, that mirror is only a reflection, not the cause, nor the root of the problem. Thanks Blutopaz!

  • BluTopaz | March 24, 2012 2:09 PM

    @ Carey; yeah, it goes back to that old Chris Rock joke about looking behind your back for niggaz, NOT the media. Sure it has some influence as you have referenced, but at what point do we look at each other and say what's wrong and right. I have the misfortune of riding the subway with some of the loudest, most ignorant Black teenagers in creation on the NY subway into Brooklyn. I mean, getting up in middle of the car (during rush hour) and loudly going on about your sexual exploits the night before, and I have heard GIRLS and boys do this. Mofo this, b___ that, once heard one girl instruct another girl to "suck my di--". I refuse to think media is the cause of this much self hatred. If a girl aspires to be Nikki Minaj/Rihanna and not Janelle Monae or Esperanza Spaulding, what do we blame then? Somebody in her life told her it's faster and cuter to be the skanky loud chick--let's bring them into the convo since we're talking about bad influences.

    You said: "How do we combat ignorance, racism, poverty, etc, and at what age do we begin to plant the right seeds? To that point, my daughter has a saying: "If you show me a 10 year old jerk, in a few years I'll show your an adult ass-hole".

    Word.

  • BluTopaz | March 24, 2012 1:54 PM

    @ NADINE: "These girls in your neighborhood learned loud behaviors from the industries who are pimping street culture to the masses"

    I'm beyond tired of this street revolution rhetoric that absolves personal responsibility.

    No, they learned it from their mamas who are out clubbing because they became mothers at young ages and are more friends to their daughters than parents. They learned it from the other women in their families who tell them to use what's in between their legs and not between their ears. I see this ish often, the grown ass woman who loudly instructs her teenage daughter to 'beat the shit outta that heifer' in reference to another young girl. When I was growing up in the 1980's in an inner city environment, guess who stopped me from bringing home dudes who looked sketchy to everyone except my young behind, all I knew was they were cute and had cars. My mother and oldest sister. It was their responsibility to make sure I learned to respect myself, NOT the media or whichever other industries you are blathering on about.

    BLACK PEOPLE NEED TO STOP BLAMING EVERYONE & EVERYTHING ELSE FOR THEIR DYSFUNCTIONS.

  • CareyCarey | March 23, 2012 12:11 PM

    Okay Nadine, I am also lazy so my short answer: I was not amen-ing this---> "would rather air dirty laundry than make a legitimate living". I don't know how you surmised that? Anyway, I believe our major influences come from our everyday experiences, i.e, friends & family, neighborhood, eduction "school systems"or lack there of, racism, poverty, etc, all of which are frequently imposed upon us at birth. I've come to believe a person's development/core values and character are shaped in our most formitive years. That being early pre-teens. Granted, we are influenced by a bevy of factors (as life progresses), however, change... real change seldom occurs for most humans. Not until our backs are against the wall, will most humans even consider major changes in their mindset or lifestyle. Consequently, it goes without question that tv & music are not the leading factors that promote change. Nor were they the leading tools that shaped the individual. Those seeds have long been planted. Solutions? WOW!? Well, I have to answer that question with a question. How do we combat ignorance, racism, poverty, etc, and at what age do we begin to plant the right seeds? To that point, my daughter has a saying: "If you show me a 10 year old jerk, in a few years I'll show your an adult ass-hole".

  • Nadine | March 23, 2012 11:15 AM

    We are at an impasse and I am too lazy to repeat statements from my comments below to reply again to your last statement. "I used the words 'boogie man' because many black folks cry, SCREAM BLOODY MURDER, point fingers, blame and run for cover at the sight of an ALLEGED negative black image being portrayed on tv and the big screen. It's a dead (double dead) sickening rally cry with no solutions."-you, I am still trying to figure out your point. Can you simply write for me, so I can understand, where you believe the major influences come from in this modern age? Just spell it out clear for me, please. Also, could you then offer some solutions to what you think the real problem is (which would help me understand your initial thesis), instead of stating that "tv and music" are not the real problem while "amen-ing" a statement about how some Black women "would rather air dirty laundry than make a legitimate living", as if that is singular to Black women (the group of women in the U.S. who work the longest # of hours as a whole)?

  • CareyCarey | March 23, 2012 10:37 AM

    @Nadine, I see we have gone off track. I never said the "media" did not influence our decision making process. I never said that. I believe I said the "media" is a broad area/subject. Nadine, you even quoted that statement and my other comments that supported my position that tv programs (sitcoms & reality tv) and films were not the leading forces in developing/molding our character. You even said it yourself... IT'S MUCH deeper than that. And, as I pointed out, you even mentioned magizines to support YOUR argument. Listen, to surmise that sitcoms & reality tv... (my basic point), are at fault for our downward spiral, is as shortsighted as saying Bobby Brown is responsible for Whitney's indiscretions, or Whitney failed treatment or Whitney wasn't an addict until she met Bobby. Nadine, as you probably know, none of that is true. Yet, many people use that minimalist approach as a rally cry. So come on Nadine, never did I say the "media" did not have influence on our behavior. I definitely understood YOUR point, however, it appears we will stay divided on the exact magnitude the "influences" in question plays in molding our character. In short, I used the words "boogie man" because many black folks cry, SCREAM BLOODY MURDER, point fingers, blame and run for cover at the sight of an ALLEGED negative black image being portrayed on tv and the big screen. It's a dead (double dead) sickening rally cry with no solutions.

  • Nadine | March 23, 2012 6:27 AM

    I'm saying that media trumps and is like a disease. Celebrity and on-screen global recognition and influence trumps local influence which has weakened dramatically over the past couple of decades due to the effects of assimilation on secondary populations, specifically Blacks. To claim that I am saying that media and tv are not the "boogie man" is to state that you did not understand my argument, which technically should be my fault, but I guess my lack of sleep may have made my statement more difficult to understand (when I could have expounded, I didn't because I was tired). Even that, though, after re-reading my statement, I don't see how you could have come to the conclusion you did. Although I brought up local spheres of influence, I always tied them to a wider sphere, the media and tv (I should have also mentioned the Internet). Magazines are not revolutionary. Popular magazines simply report and advertise the moving image and music. I did not just say ESSENCE... I said OLD ESSENCE. ESSENCE, after Susan Taylor's departure became about celebrity and of course became a part of Time Warner (they are getting better now under Constance White). The same with Vogue, shockingly. Suddenly magazines that had something to say believed that they would not be able to sell magazines without putting celebrities on the cover. I'm saying that where we are culturally today, our kids are screwed. They don't have their own style, music, interest in reading or free expressions of youth. This holds true for adults as well. When I saw that New York women (or the transplants who are taking over) started dressing as if they were on the West Coast or that after one episode of Real Housewives of Atlanta suddenly the boys felt comfortable walking down 125th wearing sky high heels (which was, again sooo Atlanta) - when we started losing our regionalism because 4 companies control all of our music and the radio stations we listen to, I mean, CC... it is just irresponsible to claim otherwise. "You mentioned "media" which is a very broad area, not restricted to tv & film. You also mentioned magazines. You even mentioned the influence our friends and family play into this equation (molding our character) and when that process begins and wanes." - you... Dude... are parents not influenced by the media? It is so much deeper than you are taking it. You think family members are not influenced by media? Come now! You think media doesn't help men determine, let's say, what kind of woman is valuable and what kind of woman is not which then affects how he treats those whom he does not believe to have value which could lead to a "used" woman/girl who becomes the mother to a child on her own without any expectations of her doing anything with her life or ever having value again or that her only value is in have a little person to take care of? You think it doesn't affect where she spends the little money she has and her attempts to transcend her "state" by aspiring towards, again, the things that the media tells her are valuable clothing, a man, long straight hair. Is she then not going to pass those values and others onto her children? That was just one example. The media SHAMES some and EXALTS others. As a former athlete and ballerina, how a sneaker company can have 15 women in a commercial about being athletic or even being fit and not have one Black woman in it is beyond reality, is just a lie. The media has rewritten athleticism for Black women... Black girls are not ever shown to be athletic on television and now suddenly our girls barely play sports. Which is very real, but NEW, like it is something that is foreign to them or only for young lesbians. Seriously...dude it is a crisis. So I need you to explain to me how the media (tv and film) DOES NOT influence, oh, everything in this modern era of assimilated sub-populations (see Rap music evolution pic - http://static.themetapicture.com/media/funny-rap-music-evolution.jpg) We've gone from having our own expressions of our individual culture to trying desperately have the dominant culture accept us by squeezing our asses into skinny jeans while riding skateboards (don't forget the skulls). FOLKS ARE LOST and their "Drinking Gourd" seems to be music, tv and films. I could go on for days...so yes, we can close out the argument, but not because I'm supporting your argument. I find everyone's arguments here to be quite dangerous.

  • CareyCarey | March 23, 2012 1:33 AM

    @ Nadine, okay, it looks like we can close this out because much of your last comments supported my opinion. You listed a number of "resources" in which a person can and does use as role models or sources of reference/influence. That was my exact point. You mentioned "media" which is a very broad area, not restricted to tv & film. You also mentioned magazines. You even mentioned the influence our friends and family play into this equation (molding our character) and when that process begins and wanes. So, in your own words you are saying and agreeing that TV and music are not the Boogie Man that many insist they are. Granted, they do have some "influence" on all of us. However, the woes of the world and our youth should not and does not rest there. And Nadine, you know I can't let you get away with implying and presenting "marked changes" and "saw a spike" as facts :-).

  • Nadine | March 23, 2012 12:54 AM

    @CC - You're claiming facts and statistics... I've got 'em. During the Ricky Lake there was a marked change in sexual behaviors in teens. During the Cosby Show and Different World years colleges saw a spike in African-American student applications and attendance. I was very much influence by the media, were you not? I appreciated Helen Willis from the Jeffersons, different components of the women of Living Single. Clair Huxtable, ESSENCE magazine during the 90s. I was a kid but internalized the tone and images of the old ESSENCE. Maybe you find the idea of being influenced by something such as the media to be a sign of weakness, or nothing good. I see it as a reality. The media is simply a storytelling device and has the same power and influence that storytellers have had throughout the ages. I'm not troubled by the question of media having influence or not. That shouldn't even be a question. Storytelling is a function of our humanity. We just happen to use lights and moving images. The problem is that we have given the power of the storytelling to some very sinister people. I learned about the world from my own research, but was guided by what I saw on the screen (mostly PBS). I'd see something and I'd want to know more. "Moreso, to 'reinforce' somethings speaks to the fact that the original thought, idea or problems was already present." - you, please note I also said mold. Of course ideas and problems could have already been present, but the media can either reinforce your nonsense or change it for the better (see afterschool specials, etc...). Any and everyone can get "f#cked" over by their provincial situation, but not acknowledging that having, let's say, your kid go to a friends house everyday afterschool while you finish up at work leaving him/her with a nice family you've known for years doesn't mean that your child is not going to sit in front of BET every afternoon and NOT get influenced especially if their peers are subscribing to the same nonsense. There are biological things and stages going on with young people where they have their "behavior modeling" shift from their parents to their peers and this does not really stop until the age of 23 when kids become biological adults (brain begins to shrink and the covering mucous that allowed for increased electrical activity decreases). What there friend are listening to and watching is very important to them. Also, they are subject to the Rosenthal Effect, low expectations and what that does to the psyche. The low expectations placed upon our kids and people in general on screen become the norm (PLEASE read this article regarding an episode of 20/20 - http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2450394&page=1#.T2v_udnE23Y). Expectations are soooo important and influence adults in the same way. I'm deliriously tired. I don't know if what I wrote was coherent or not.

  • CareyCarey | March 23, 2012 12:01 AM

    @ Nadine, "I blame ALL of the negative behavior on television AND music. Period. Simple as that. TV and music can model or reinforce behaviors and places expectations high or low on different demographics based on their perceived value" - you. Well Nadine, the optimum words are "can" and "or reinforce behavior". Consequently, that argument can never trump facts. Moreso, to "reinforce" somethings speaks to the fact that the original thought, idea or problems was already present. Which speaks to my position that movies and tv are not and were not the impetus to said negative behavior. I would suggest one use themselves to identify what shaped their morals, character and lessons of life. I doubt if any of us would say we based/modeled any of our defining "good" or "bad" qualities off a tv image. Yet, we are very quick to separate/stratify ourselves above this equation. Are we saying we are "different" or "better" than "those" people? I am suggesting that it's nothing but "talk" and ambiguous conjecture to imply that TV and music trumps everyday experiences, sights and sound, neighborhood, family & friends. Nadine, facts and statistics will not support your argument. You can "blame" who you please, but.....

  • Nadine | March 22, 2012 11:19 PM

    @Monique... Please stop and reflect. There are parts of every community that are seen as "low brow". What I don't understand is your, basically, making an excuse for Hollywood choosing to give these women a platform when other types of Black women rarely getting the same opportunity (although 2012 is looking better). You don't see Hollywood looking for Taiwanese prostitutes and giving them a show, or the Real Housewives of Appalachia. PLEASE stop with your complicit acceptance of the status quo... There are jackasses all over the boards today dropping n-bombs (ignorant) , but it is your "statement" that is most disappointing. Cry for OUR daughters because no one protects them. Cry for OUR daughters because the media and OUR COMMUNITY are not trying to put out positive role models for our girls, but are VERY VERY CLEAR which girls deserve positive role models. So we've got to stop giving each other a hard time. We have to stop believing that somehow what "that" Black chick over there is doing has nothing to do with "the bigger picture" because "she" is of a lower class or embarrassing. If we're stripped of our communalism then we're kaput... Black women are getting made fun of TODAY, because YESTERDAY we were not KIND TO EACH OTHER. We judged each other by our hair, now the world does. We called each other "ghetto", now the world does all because we didn't hold on to each other when those who were supposed to protect us fell victim to their own pathologies. ALL of these reality TV women have "issues" that are being manipulated by the Hollywood machine. It's just about who Hollywood chooses to mock. @BLUTO - little girls are concerned with being pretty. They are not going to look up to Michelle Obama or Oprah who are both attractive to the MATURE eye. Young girls want to look like Barbie dolls, dress like barbie dolls have bodies like Barbie dolls so they spend most of their time looking forward to being "grown women" who will have the freedom to BE a Barbie doll. They are going to emulate BET chicks or MTV chicks because they want to be 20... not 40. These girls in your neighborhood learned loud behaviors from the industries who are pimping street culture to the masses. In other words, outside influences, INCLUDING reality tv and similar mediums are to blame as well. @CC - I blame ALL of the negative behavior on television AND music. Period. Simple as that. TV and music can model or reinforce behaviors and places expectations high or low on different demographics based on their perceived value. Yeah that was long, but I'm tired...tired of ya'll! ;)

  • CareyCarey | March 22, 2012 10:27 PM

    @ Blutopaz, THANK YOU, I agree! Adding on to what you said, I doubt much of "our" negative behavior can, nor should be blamed on reality tv, or tv in general. Other images, behavioral patterns and role models are indelibly etched in our memories LOOOONG before (and with much more intensity and longer durations) than we are influenced by small gulps of tv.

  • BluTopaz | March 22, 2012 10:10 PM

    I see loud, obnoxious girls on a daily basis in my Brooklyn neighborhood and seriously doubt they learned all that negative behavior from watching reality tv. We can't blame the media for everything. Why wouldn't they admire Michelle Obama or Oprah instead?

  • PatriciaW | March 22, 2012 12:07 PM

    Hear, hear, Monique! I cry, too.

  • getthesenets | March 22, 2012 10:32 AMReply

    in the words of Dave Chappelle.."Fame is scary. look at bill clinton...can you imagine being so famous that someone sicks your duck and then THEY'RE famous?"

  • ChgoSista | March 22, 2012 10:06 AMReply

    Am I the only one who doesn't believe that "The five women have been friends for several years...?" -_-

  • sandra | March 22, 2012 9:09 AMReply

    The war against black women continues (with our help). Mainstream media NEVER SLEEPS when it comes to finding new ways to help us degrade ourselves. It's going to take years to recover from the misleading content this type of programming presents. We have enough to fight against without the proliferation of these crass shows. How can such a short program description contain so many bull droppings.

  • Akimbo | March 21, 2012 10:45 PMReply

    "Extraordinarily strong women." Right. Moving along.

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