Where can people get a chance to see your earlier stuff pre-“Murder Party”, like the short film “Crabwalk”?
“Crabwalk” is unobtainable right now—we used some Black Sabbath in it so we've been trying to recut it. It was shot on 16mm, so I've always wanted to archive it since back in 2004 when it was just living on standard definition. So…soon. Not on the “Blue Ruin” DVD, but maybe streaming. They're fun, very different: “Crabwalk” is kind of—it's almost played out now, but it's a nice American indie about some dumb shit trying to get a job. It's very melancholy and it has a nice vibe. And we had a zombie comedy too.
From the plot description, “Crabwalk” has the same “shedding-of-the-facial-hair” transformation as well.
Yeah, that was a mustache. And we actually had a feature script called “Mustache,” of which Crabwalk was a short version. It wasn't really the same plot, but the same character. Yeah, facial hair is key to all of our projects.
Did you primarily hone that naturalistic approach working as a DP with Matthew Porterfield [director of “Putty Hill” and “I Used To Be Darker”]?
Sure, Matt and I developed our aesthetics together, we went to film school at NYU. We just had this effortless collaboration that gave us energy and because we started so early we defined ourselves together. I shot his first film “Hamilton," his second film “Putty Hill” and then “I Used to Be Darker”.” Putty Hill” was a big breakthrough for both of us because Matt did tons of prep, embraced his limitations and was so good at fighting the right battles.
I saw him on the set of “I Used to be Darker” and we were trying to work a scene with one of those crazy schedules—18 days. It wasn't working and then boom, he rewrote it on the spot. It was a really pragmatic approach. Be nimble, move on, and stay true to your overall narrative. But don't get sunk. The aesthetic I've always had from a visual standpoint, I do not like artificiality. I don't shoot movies that want that, because I just don't feel it. I've only shot films for friends, mostly for favors, and so I have an influence over the look. If someone wanted something hyper-stylized though I would just bow out. Artificiality drives me nuts.
It seems like the film was designed for efficiency, but if you were given that million dollars to make the film where would that have gone?
We actually asked for a million dollars on the movie. $1,060,000. I can’t tell what would've happened if we'd gotten that, but I know we would've had to answer to a lot of people. We fought all those battles, made those compromises early on, and so I wrote them into the script. When our budget went from $1 million to $200,000 instead, we didn't have to change a page of script. It was under more duress and unsustainable wages and extremely high levels of stress on my end, having had to self-fund it, but looking back there is absolutely no regrets.
We really tapped out all of our resources on “Blue Ruin”. The picture car, the key locations were all friends and family. This was likely going to be our last movie; we had no expectations as far as it boosting our careers. We just had to finally do a proper send-off if it wasn't going to work out. We had to do a film that was at the very least the best that we could deliver at that moment. Then, if we had to take on new careers or alternate paths in life we'd know that we had this archive of our best efforts.
How are you and Macon feeling at this juncture?
Oh, we are hardcore going forward. I'm not taking the bait. I'm not learning the lessons of “Blue Ruin," trusting your instincts and friends and embracing limitations, and going to go bite off a huge franchise where I'm just a hired hand. I still aspire to make studio movies, big ones—I'd love to helm the next “Bourne” trilogy—but I'm in no rush to get there.
I think it's best for me to earn my way up the ladder so I can retain control. Not to be an evil dictator, but rather so that there's one voice behind these things. I listen to everybody, test screenings, brutal script notes, but the end result has to be my call. Macon is a writer and an actor, and we've definitely gotten repped up. We have managers and are actively pursuing bigger and better projects. But this steep curve from where we were a year ago to where we are now—that's never happening again. We're embracing the wild ride and not being too precious about our futures. We're going to have to earn it and take our time.
“Blue Ruin” opens in theaters and iTunes on April 25th.