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Is George R. R. Martin Right In Wanting Longer Seasons For 'Game Of Thrones?'

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by Oliver Lyttelton
June 11, 2014 11:05 AM
93 Comments
  • |

It feels like only yesterday that since "Game Of Thrones" began its fourth season, and [SPOILER REDACTED], and then [OTHER SPOILER REDACTED] and oh my god, when [REALLY MASSIVE SPOILER REDACTED]. But we're already upon the season finale, certainly a testament to the power of the story, but it's hard not to feel like we were only just getting going when it all comes to an end.

George R. R. Martin, creator of "A Song Of Ice And Fire," the book series on which "Game Of Thrones" is based, certainly agrees that ten episodes, which has become the standard for a 'Thrones' season, feels a bit slight. In a new interview with The New York Times to tie-in to the upcoming finale, the writer says "I wish we had more episodes. I'd love to have 13 episodes. With 13 episodes, we could include smaller scenes that we had to cut, scenes that make the story deeper and richer."

Martin got his start on network television like "Beauty & The Beast," so he certainly knows what he's talking about when it comes to TV plotting, and he's correct in that a 13-episode run tends to be more common for a cable show (though not necessarily for HBO, whose series can be as short as six or as long as thirteen). But there are more practical issues at work, as Martin is aware of: the show is wildly expensive, weighing in at around $60-70 million a season, and that money goes further if it's spread over fewer episodes ("Battles are expensive," he acknowledges).

But we'd say that there are creative considerations too: the pacing of the show is mostly very strong, but not all the characters have evenly paced storylines, and that means that even across ten episodes, some characters feel like they're spinning their wheels (we're not sure how many more seasons we can put up with Daenerys sitting around in sunny fortresses learning that she needs to rule, not just conquer). So we can't help but feel that extended seasons might exacerbate that problem, rather than improve it. 

But with the show proving such an enormous hit (the biggest in HBO's history), surely the financial considerations are less of a problem these days—HBO could certainly spend another $20 million on the show and still make bags of cash off it. So what do you think? Are you a fan of the books who misses the material that gets left on the cutting room floor? Do you think the storylines could use a little more room to breath? Or do you agree that the ten episode-seasons keep the show relatively lean? Let us know your thoughts below. And in the meantime, you can watch a promo for Sunday's finale, "The Children." 

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93 Comments

  • ed | July 26, 2014 5:22 PMReply

    I would like longer seasons on game of thrones.

  • Brett Allen | June 20, 2014 9:57 PMReply

    I was a top media personality, and wrote for Emmy winners, as well as pitched a hit DISC alien show idea... (and have another if anyone is interested) why not a season finale feature length MOVIE??? It would satisfy both fans and writers alike who feel slighted! ALSO -Instead of cutting out weekly episode scenes, why not use more of the FULL hour? Start at the top of the hour and save a couple minutes on the ridiculously long intro. Then run out the clock to say :56 before you begin playing HBO promos? Why do they feel the need to steal ten minutes of promo time at the end of the clock from the channel's hottest show???

  • frank rizzo | June 23, 2014 2:02 AM

    First off to Brett Allen they use the last 10 mins of the show for the HBO promos because it is the biggest show in HBO history and there's a lot of people that see those promos, so that's not going to change. With that said, because of all the fewers they have watching the show, they can afford to make more episodes. I feel like the show was just getting started and I was really getting excited to see more, it defenitly should not have stop at episode 10. What will really suck is, if they take as long to make the 5th season as it did to make the 4th. We waited all that time for the 4th season and only got 10 episodes. Not good at all.

  • Brent | June 20, 2014 3:17 AMReply

    One commentator stated they liked the first two seasons better the latter. This is telling, most readers prefer the third book. Certain characters were cut entirely from the story (Coldhands), but other small details might have served as more important. The secret passageway detail in the book (Tyrion's escape) was shortchanged, as was the reflection on the woman he was married to briefly in the past (and the nastiness of it involving Tywin). That latter piece really framed Tyrion's rage, and I think its absence weakened the season's end.

    The speed of the storytelling, while extremely effective for the pace, is at times too breakneck, with even costume and CGI detail taking a hit. "Leaf" is introduced, and while we were expecting a childlike humanoid elf - we got a dirty child (who we guess is a little elfish and throws fire). The zombie skeleton wights attack... but shouldn't they have had some skin (to hold them together)? Not bad writing, but a little more plot consideration please.

    Killing Jojen was another major departure from the writing, and it is events such as these that really give us a better window into GRRM's thinking. -He didn't really care about Jojen, so it was okay to kill him off (rather than he meet his demise later at Greywater Watch as he foresees, either as himself or a wight, or whatever).

    We know GRRM loves to paint the bright and dark sides of every character (and faith)... and this has spawned endless fan theories regarding the God of Light versus the potentially nefarious underling "Children", who live in the desolate north, surrounded by seemingly evil magic and the Three Eyed Crow (old dude).... Yet, now that we've met these characters, their qualities are less dark, more solemn, and more boring. They could be evilish, but do we even care? I remains to be seen what they will do next year without a new book. There is story to tell, it's just not as good a story.

  • Fluids | June 19, 2014 1:49 PMReply

    He is right. Game of Thrones is a wonderful show. Unfortunately I feel it suffers from four things:
    1. Not enough time to effectively convey the dialog, storylines and characterization that is present in the books for an effective adaptation.
    2. Not enough use of more descriptive dialog from the source material.

    One tiny Example:
    Jon Snow in both the show and book convince Ned to take the Direwolve pups:

    Show: “Lord Stark? There are five pups one for each of the Stark children.
    The direwolf is the sigil of your House.”
    Book: “Lord Stark? There are five pups…Three Male, two female. You have five trueborn children…Three sons, two daughters. The direwolf is the sigil of your House. Your children were meant to have these pups, my lord”
    Show: Use all the lines from the book about three Male and two female pups. It better establishes the foreshadow of Caitlyn being the Mother Direwolf being killed by the Stag (Joffrey Baratheon) and how the pups represent the Stark children.
    3. Not enough use of inner monologues with characters using flashbacks; characters talking to themselves; using overdubbed inner monologue (like in the movie Dune); or dialog between two characters to help the audience have better context of things.
    Example #2:
    Show: The three eyed raven says in the show: “I've been watching you. All of you. All of your lives. With 1,000 eyes and one.”
    Book: Caitlyn felt like the eyes of the face carved in the Weirwood were watching her as she was speaking to Ned in the godswood after he gets back from executing the deserter.
    “She glanced behind her at the heart tree, the pale bark and red eyes, watching, listening, thinking, its long slow thoughts.”
    Show: Why not have Caitlyn say to Ned “I always feel like that face is watching me” as she approaches him. Simple stuff like that would go a long way.

    All these things I feel are pretty easy writing decisions that could have been made to enhance the TV viewers understanding about what is going on.

    I hope that illustrates my opinions about the lack of details with the TV Show.

    4. There is this backfilling process of important details an episode later because they are afraid of spoiling the impact of things we have not seen before.

    Example: We saw Mag the Mighty lift the gate in S4E9 and battle Grenn and lost. The death of the giant would have been way more impactful had we known he was the leader of the Giants and there aren't many of them left. We are given this information in s4E10 which is fairly useless as far as appreciating what the battle cost for the wildlings during the S4E9.

  • meh | July 21, 2014 7:59 PM

    *CATELYN

  • tim | June 19, 2014 11:32 AMReply

    As a fan of the show I would love to see more episodes of the tv show maybe 13 to 16 eps a season that may sound alot but if they did it they would make the ratings go up tenfold and this is coming from a fan whos never read the books. Hbo would make alot more if they would made more episodes for each season its a win win for the fans and hbo

  • Skinnie718 | June 18, 2014 10:26 PMReply

    also...if anyone can please get back to me...does anyone else feel that this show is AMAZING..yet who else is waiting for this war, the white walkers, the dragons. I mean this is starting to get dragged out and I cant stand it. does anyone agree that the first 2 season were alot better than the last 2 or ami totaly wrong ...remember im not saying that seasons 3 and 4 were bad..but just not as good ...please post back iam extremely curious on what ppl think and if im just crazy or not lol

  • Skinnie718 | June 18, 2014 10:21 PMReply

    ok its like this...short and sweet...I LOVE THE SHOW GAME OF THRONES but for a show of that magnitude and so many character stories that have to be told in the short 10 episode span..is just not enough...now 13 episodes sounds like a plan..and I honestly believe that's what most people want is more game of thrones not LESS..10 episodes of game of thrones aww come on man!! wait..13 episodes of game of thrones HELL YES..why..because ppl love the show in general..and there is nothing shocking in the show except for The red wedding...honestly it has to start delivering on suspense and the unexpectedness especially for people such as myself that has not read the books. SURPRISE is always good. anyway let me stop rambling..its like this mr. martin another 3 episodes or even 2 could tell ALOT MORE STORY so please do us all a favor and give us the extra episodes..do you know how quick 10 weeks go by ...thank you for your time

  • MEH | July 21, 2014 8:01 PM

    GRRM agrees with you. Unfortunately it is not his decision to make.

  • Mike | June 16, 2014 3:17 PMReply

    The more episodes the better! The story is so complex and with such a large cast it would only add to the story. I don't think it would make the shows pace slow all that much. It would make it more interesting I think. Network shows like 'Grey's Anatomy' get around 20 episodes a season and nothing happens on those shows. Granted there are fewer sets and a smaller cast. I would love to have a few more episodes a season. 13-15 would be fantastic. More people would tune in to HBO or maintain subscriptions longer. The fan base is surely only getting larger. HBO wins. Fans win. Seems like a no brainer.

  • Skinnie718 | June 18, 2014 10:24 PM

    I totally agree man. how awesome would it be to have 13 episodes. I mean really 10 episodes is way to short.

  • Olias | June 14, 2014 3:40 AMReply

    I am addicted to Game of Thrones, both the books and the t.v. series. One critique I have is that there's too much graphic blood and gore that's "a bit much" to say the least. I was really shaken up by what happened to Prince Oberlin on the t.v. screen. Yuck! That said, I also think there are some details which could be enhanced by a longer series. Some scenes seem too brief to me. In ways I feel that each episode could be longer. In other words, more! more! I want more! only less blood and gore!

  • Elwood | June 13, 2014 2:27 PMReply

    I'm not sure - I have long enjoyed the compressed storytelling you get with British shows that tend to be 6-10 episodes a season. Important things happen in every episode, and the story progresses with momentum. I understand what he's saying, but I think too many episodes would make it more like a TV show in terms of pacing, and less cinematic.

  • Mike881 | June 13, 2014 8:17 AMReply

    10 episodes is far too short for such a complex story. 13 should be an absolute minimum!

  • Michael | June 13, 2014 5:10 AMReply

    I'd say just include extended scenes on the dvd release, and have an option to watch the tv broadcasted version of the episode or an extended one. Making each episode longer but remaining at 10 episodes.

  • jack | June 13, 2014 7:42 AM

    I'd say ummm no. Longer episodes and longer seasons. Your argument us invalid, go watch Lil house on the Prairie if that's what you want.

  • travis | June 13, 2014 1:28 AMReply

    I am a big fan of the show and an even bigger fan of the books. I started by watching the show before I got into reading the books and after reading them and going back and watching the show it makes me realize that the show isn't completely lacking the depth that the book goes into but could take that extra step to give us more of the details that really caught my attention in the book. The story is so well thought out that I believe that it deserves to have a longer season. This would not only give the fans a better understanding of the story but also give them the experience that they and the story itself deserve.

  • Mike | June 12, 2014 11:28 PMReply

    I think the show certainly needs more episodes, precisely because it has such a large cast of primary and secondary characters. Now the show is wildly popular, but I would argue it is borderline awful with character development. Because of the limited volume and numerous story lines, your leads (and some of the more talented cast members) have such a disproportionately small amount of screen time for a television series. Also, because the screen time is limited I feel most scenes are very focused on delivering the key plot pieces and not letting the writers and the actors play with the roles. I think if you look back you'll find some of your favorite scenes (and where you bond with the characters) are less plot driven then other scenes. A recent example is "Watchers on the Wall". You could argue that the plot did not advance at all in this episode (same situation as the start) but it had some truly wonderful moments because the camera was allowed to linger:
    Sam and Maester Aemon
    Alliser delivering out of nowhere
    Grenn's last stand

    Now because of this episode we're likely to have a popcorn finale which may be frustrating to see wrapped up quickly. Another couple episodes would have helped that. I've heard some arguments that the show would stagnate if it was stretched. Bunk. These writers should be able to draw from the source material scenes that would be in keeping faith with the characters, even if they didn't happen in the books. The cast is talented enough to keep us engaged. I think stagnation in the past is due to the pattern of get in-get out advance the plot mentality when really not much is going on. If the show had more breathing room I think you could see more creativity injected into those scenes rather than simply checking your "Dany frustrated with ruling" check box for the episode.

  • Kathy | June 23, 2014 3:52 AM

    I agree. I love the show. However it doesn't matter how much you spend on locations and sets, if you do not allow for character development, you are going to loose the audience. With cramming everything into just ten episodes, the characters, the actors and writers, and ultimately the fans loose. When a show like this looses audiences due to incomplete character development, all that will be left are the viewers only watching it for the gore. I for one want to get to know the main characters. Even though I haven't started reading the books yet, I cared about Ned Stark and his death because of the development done on his character. How many episodes did he have before he died? And yet I cared. Do you think that Peter Dinklage could have won awards for his character if he had been given as little character development as they seem to be doing now? I loved Daenerys previously. Now, not so much. It's because they are failing with the continuing character development. I will wait for the next season, however if they continue to let me down, I will stop watching the show, just as I did True Blood.

    That's my 2 cents :/

  • Uli | June 12, 2014 10:51 PMReply

    A captivating story, a fantastic cast, amazing sets..... Game of Thrones has the potential to be one of the best shows ever, but why the excessive sex and violence? Do the makers of this show really think that this is what the audience wants and needs to keep on watching? Are we considered to be so bloodthirsty and callous that we won't keep watching unless we see graphic violence in every episode? The casting of this show is superb, but after watching last week's episode of Gregor Clegane crushing the head of the Prince of Dorne, you have lost a very dedicated fan. Gore, blood, sex and violence is not what makes this show so good, it is the story, the characters, the actors..... but I will no longer watch because I refuse to be degraded to the level that the directors of this show think their audience lives on. What a shame, it could have been so good.l

  • Jon | June 12, 2014 11:26 PM

    Battles are bloody and gory, that's just the way it is. It's the reality of it. The fight between Oberyn and Gregor happened in the books too, so it was bound to show up on the show

  • Eric K | June 12, 2014 11:20 PM

    The Mountain and The Viper scene was portrayed exactly how it was described in the book. The gratuitous violence and sex is as portrayed in the book... Blame GRRM if you disapprove. Though I agree, the excessive sex is a bit much. But lots of it is also in the book. The producers have taken some creative liberties, but this has help make the book translate to TV and tie character arcs.

  • Shaquille Garrett | June 12, 2014 10:40 PMReply

    I would defiantly love the show to have more episodes. It all depends on how it going to come across. I do think Danny character suffered a lot of criticism from people, and understandably. Me as we'll, I wanted her to take back westeros from the time when she found out the king was dead , meaning Joffrey. She has been very stale and boring this season. Basically just sitting on a throne that's not her fathers, I still want her to succeed but, I don't feel the same way for her as I did in season 1.

  • Eric K | June 12, 2014 9:58 PMReply

    What a great season! I am not sure a longer season is a good thing, however longer episodes would be nice. Having read the books prior to watching the series, I was kinda hoping to see lady Stoneheart and the brotherhood make an appearance. But, with S4 coming to a close...that bird has flown. Until next spring, it will be workplace conversations and speculation on S5. ....and of course, lots of googling on the subject. Until then, let's get series finale of Boardwalk Empire done, then more True Detective....and as soon as the season finale of Girls airs, I know S5 is around the corner.

  • Ian | June 12, 2014 8:31 PMReply

    No, it doesn't need to be longer. Just because martin has lost the ability to edit his books down doesn't mean the show needs to be afflicted too. The last two books were baggy and badly needed trimming down. Hopefully a tighter pacing on the show will sort those problems out.

  • Meris | June 13, 2014 8:25 AM

    That's pretty valid. I haven't read the last two books so I can't say for sure how baggy they are. My friends have them and they're relatively large-looking though. I myself would appreciate at least one more episode per season.

  • jack | June 13, 2014 7:44 AM

    Shut the fuk up

  • Eliabeth Vinje | June 12, 2014 11:46 AMReply

    More episodes.

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 11:03 AMReply

    I love this show too. More than all of you I bet. I want more epsidoes as well, I have read the books multiple times, have the maps, the Dunk and Egg. I wear the t-shirts, I google game of thrones, winds of winter, george rr martin, song of ice and fire, theories everyday, multiple times a day. But none of you understand how producing and maintaining a TV show is like.

    Most of you I am assuming haven't read the books, that is evident by your comments. if you have read the books then not very closely. The show is an epic show. That shows every major event at least one person episode. The makes the show epic. All the current characters in the show have been developed. Most of you want development from characters that aren't in the books any longer or aren't pivotal to the story. Put it this way, if there is a character you wish you saw more of but don't then that means they prob aren't important (aka Beric and Gendry)Add 2-5 new episodes and now you have more lead-in episodes, more set-up episodes, more characters talking about the same thing. No major events have been missed. maybe one or two but not worthy of 2-5 more episodes a season. I guarantee you, you add 2-5 more episodes and people become bored some episodes. the show isn't as epic because something epic doesn't happen every episode like it does now. everyone complains that they don't want spoiled from winds of winter but we add episodes and we will def. be spoiled. They have already jumped into Feast and Dance, they could have added the events you want to see instead of jumping characters into the next books. But they didnt and here is why, some events just don't translate to the story. some events don't translate from paper to TV. The show is confusing to watch to the average viewer and with 18 million viewers there are alot of average viewers. They need to keep it simple and straight forward and not confuse the viewer. They will already get confused when all the new Dornish and Iron islanders and targs coming in the next seasons.

    I want more episodes if it was possible. I would appreciate the extra story lines. But the story lines would be less epic and people would complain about the show then. It is not necessarily about telling a complete story but also trying to maintain a successful drama. The show is successful right now but if it starts to have repeat conversations and less epic episodes the popularity will stumble.

    Don't mess with what got you there.

  • Trish | June 12, 2014 9:46 AMReply

    Longer seasons for a novel series of this complexity is a must. I think they should expand it to 13.

  • Mike | June 12, 2014 8:05 AMReply

    longer seasons? no complaints here

  • MikeH1 | June 12, 2014 4:34 AMReply

    Longer season? YES PLEASE!

  • Luke | June 12, 2014 3:59 AMReply

    I'd think 10 seasons of 10 episodes would be perfect. I dunnot think they'll be able to do Martin's story justice if they rush it and pack it all up in 7 seasons. I mean look how it's gone so far:
    Season 1- Based on A Game of Thrones
    Season 2- Based on A Clash of Kings (quite rushed though missed loads of book info)
    Season 3- A Storm of Swords Part 1
    Season 4- A Storm of Swords Part 2

    Now based on how the Seasons have gone so far this is how it should continue

    Season 5- A Feast for Crows
    Season 6- A Dance with Dragons Part 1
    Season 7- A Dance with Dragons Part 2
    Season 8- The Winds of Winter Part 1
    Season 9- The Winds of Winter Part 2
    Season 10- A Dream of Spring

    A Minimum of 10 Seasons will get the whole story in. A Dance of Dragons is like A Storm of Swords it's split into 2 books, so 2 Seasons will be based on it, and The Winds of Winter is going to be 1,500 pages long compared to 780 of the two Storm of Swords books combined, so it will take AT LEAST 2 Seasons or it will be incredibly rushed. I believe even 11 Seasons could suffice, I mean it sound's good too, when it's remembered they'll say Game of Thrones aired 2011-2021.

  • Harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 9:44 AM

    The show would fall apart if they only did a Feast for Crows next season. fans are already complaining about Danny taking her sweet time to get to Westeros so a whole season of Dany, Dorne, and and Iron islands would have 18 million drop to 10 in a heart beat.

    Feast for Crows/Dance with Dragons will be season 5 and partially seasons 6. Please remember that there is alot of traveling and politicing by new characters in book 4 and 5 so it is slower and not as interesting. They are the two books that are setting up book 6 and 7 so to have those two books in 3 seasons would kill the show. Besides A feast and a Dance will be shown at the same time. I have always said go like this

    Season 1: Game of Thrones(2011)
    Season 2: Clash of Kings(2012)
    Season 3: Storm of Swords(2013)
    Season 4: Storm of Swords(2014)
    Season 5: Feast/Dance(2015)
    Season 6: Feast/Dance/part of Winds(2016): Book 6 comes out in 2016 before season 7
    Season 7: Winds of Winter(2017)
    Season 8: Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring(2018)
    Season 9: (2019) No new season do a 3 part mini series about Robert's Rebellion (would be awesome, think about all the events you could see)Also, he puts out book 7 in 3 years so:
    Season 10: Finish the series in a Dream of Spring (2020)

    The books are released prior to their season and there is enough material i believe for book 6 and 7 to be in 4 seasons

  • John | June 12, 2014 6:23 AM

    season 5 is actually AFFC/ADWD. Also it's gonna change the dynamic a lot when the books end while characters like Arya are 13 and in the show she's 20.

  • Hitomi | June 12, 2014 12:38 AMReply

    How about you finish the book series, instead of being all out and about, so the show doesn't have to hault or move forward without them? Just a thought!

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 9:46 AM

    you make it sound so simple. After the mediocreness of book 4 and 5 compared to 1,2, and 3 I don't mind being spoiled in the show. I watched the first season before ever reading the books and it was fine. I want book 6 and 7 to be good not rushed.

  • John | June 12, 2014 6:23 AM

    You don't make the greatest books of all time in a day.

  • Kendoll | June 11, 2014 8:11 PMReply

    I agree more episodes would allow more character development which is sorely lacking. The show seems to deviate from the books in that the characters are more black and white, when in the books, everyone is grey. It was this aspect that made the books so enjoyable.

    While the show is enjoyable, some characters have been changed to be almost unrecognizable. In particular, Sandor Clegane "The Hound" has had inconsistent character development (even in the show-verse), while Jon Snow has had little at all.

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 9:49 AM

    Two things the Hound has had backstory and character development season 1. Have you even been paying attention to the show.

    Jon Snow's character development is just beginning. He only saw the world as black and white and now he can grow that Ygritte died and he is leading. Give it time.

    Some characters are unrecognizable because he is mixing book characters together for the show. You can't have all of those characters and expect your viewers to pay attention. You have to simplify a show from the book for the viewer. I think you are asking for to much and not paying attention.

  • hodor | June 11, 2014 7:32 PMReply

    HODOR

  • Stephen | June 16, 2014 12:20 AM

    I laughed way to hard at this....im high

  • Robin Evans | June 11, 2014 5:20 PMReply

    13 episodes instead of 10 would be great! 10 does make it seem like some things are missing or have been cut short - although the audience always wants more, it would help with some of the different stories for some characters that we don't see as much & how it all ties together. I love it otherwise, can't wait for the next episodes and new seasons.

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 9:51 AM

    If the show goes to 13 episodes expect repeat conversations and a much much slower pace. Expect more set-up episodes which are boring and then the critics start to review the show worse when the show is reviewed worse people stop watching when people stop watching the show then rushes to finish the series because 9 seasons won't be possible.

  • Richard | June 11, 2014 4:52 PMReply

    If they can afford it I'd love to see 13 episodes! And although I have NOT read the books I am thoroughly enjoying the series. In addition if the author is suggesting or calling for this he probably knows that there is enough material from what is being cut out to make this possible. On the other hand, then he himself probably needs to get a writing, because from what I understand the series is moving quite fast and may run out of material.

    For myself there are a few characters we haven't heard from in awhile or much at all. Perhaps the books do not allow for as much character development for them, but just the same I'm still interested. Take Gendry, Robert's bastard, who was set free by Davos Seaworth or Rickon Stark (Ned's youngest son) & Osha who set off for Last Heart, the seat of House Umber, or Jaqen H'ghar, the assassin who invited Arya Stark to Braavos and gave her an iron coin to use if she did, or Berric Dondarrion, the Lord of Black Haven and a follower of the Red Faith. Then there are those we barely/rarely see; Tommen, (Lannister) Barathion the invisible king and Loras Tyrell, "soon" to be Cersei's husband. BUT what I really, really miss the most are the DRAGONS, who seem to be on growth hormones considering there comparative size changes recently!

    As for the future; projecting way out there, Mance and his army of united wilding tribes over run the Wall & Castle Black and begin pillaging the North, working there way South. Eventually, the Southern kingdoms unite to defeat them, but with the tunnel now open the White Walkers begin their march to the south. Even the combined kingdom's armies are unfortunately unable to halt them, especially given that any dead corpses not burnt become White Walkers and add to their forces. Almost unstoppable, as they move further and further south, decimating Weteros as they go, it is left up to Daenerys and her dragons to turn the tide, defeat the White Walkers, and be seated on the Throne in King's Landing. (Long shot possible future husband for her......Gendry!)

  • Son of fire | June 13, 2014 10:00 AM

    Harlow speaks the truth
    I remember my wishfull thinking,my hopes and dreams for my beloved characters,then i read the books & GRRM dashed my hopes and dreams against the wall...just like the mountain did to little prince aegon!
    I could'nt stop after the red wedding where s3 left off,so i bringe read the rest of book 3 followed by 4&5.

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 10:01 AM

    You need to read the books for alot of reasons!

    Jaquen Hagar doesn't show up in the books after his run-in with Arya. He may have for one chapter but that is still questionable. Rickon is with Osha and they haven't had a chapter in the books since book 3. Gendry is in hiding as well, who cares about a character in hiding. I don't really want to waste 5 minutes of episode watching Gendry hide from Gold Cloaks.
    Berric Dondarion may get one more scene but never has a POV and is most likely done, sorta.
    The dragons are awesome but the great thing the books and show do is let them grow you don't see them terrorizing cities out of the gate. It is more real this way. They are also expensive to CGI but will be in the show more after the season probably. if you start showing the dragons every episode then they get stale. Now when you only see them in 1 or 2 episodes it is an awesome experience. I rather only see them for 2-3 episodes instead of 8 episodes. Your projection for the future is funny, can't wait to see your reaction to future events. Only problem with your projection is the wildings and mance know about the walkers so why would they leave the gate open? That is the reason why they are trying to get south of the wall. They wouldn't leave the gate open. Personally if you have this much love for Gendry you are going to be sorely disappointed.

    I strongly suggest for you to read the books.

  • GregR | June 11, 2014 4:02 PMReply

    I wish HBO would have longer seasons. 8-10 episodes a season suck. The season barely gets started and then it's the season finale. Then we have to wait an entire year for the next really short season. Meanwhile, I'm paying for HBO for the entire year. I don't ever watch movies on HBO or Showtime. I watch the original programming that we get so little of. If HBO wants to have short seasons. I'll cancel after Sunday and then sign up again right before Game of Thrones comes back NEXT YEAR. That would save me money too. That way HBO saves money and I'll save money.

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 10:04 AM

    Cancel HBO until the show is back on dummy! By the way, every saturday HBO puts out a new movie. Also, true Blood is fantastic, The news room is fantastic, boardwalk empire is amazing, silicon valley is funny, Veep is def. funny. The new show the leftovers looks good, also you can see every episode from any HBO show on demand right now.

    I haven't paid for HBO in 3 years, I call and complain and haggle every 3-6 months and get it for free.

  • Mike | June 11, 2014 3:58 PMReply

    The Show has become a freaking book spoiler, especially the last 3-4 episodes. The timelines are all over the place, and people who aren't even dead in the books were killed last week? WTF? Pipp and Grenn didn't die, but there they were in the last episode...Dead as Doornails...
    Do they die in the next book? If so, that is a Book Spoiler, does the Scythe make an appearance in the next book? If so that is a Book Spoiler--we know nothing about it..it's never mentioned in the book--The show writers could have made it up, but we don't know that-Martin could have been saving it for a later battle...Remember a couple episodes when we see the White Walker change Craster's Boy into another White Walker? Book Spoiler...we never see that in the Books...I'll watch this finale...But I might be taking a break from this whole show until Marin gets off his rear end and Finishes Winds of Winter...The show is becoming Canon..and I can't have that.

  • Son of fire | June 13, 2014 9:48 AM

    Its to fill in for the lack of a chain in S2E09 Blackwater
    Same director

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 10:12 AM

    Waaaa want some cheese with that wine. First Martin is co-exec prod. and signs off on most of the writing. Yes Pyp and Grenn don't die in the books that doesn't mean they will but they are not important characters IMO in the books. Especially if Jon leaves the wall in the books. Those two won't be going with him. I wouldn't worry about Pyp and Grenn, they were killed in the show because the writers can bring in better actors to expand the storyline at the wall. they may die in the books but again pyp and grenn are not important in the book or the show.

    The scythe is made up and most likely will not be in the books. I doubt we see anyone climbing the wall the rest of the series. Think about it all of the wildings are south now except for ones that didn't come. They know they can come to the gate to receive passage to the other side if need be. The wights won't climb, so quit worrying about scythe and enjoy the visiual representation it brought on the show. If you are writing fiction and put a giant wall in it and mention horns that could bring the wall down, I won't be surprised at all to see the wall fall before it is said and done. You don't put something like that in a story if you aren't going to bring it down.

    The only spoiler was Craster's baby. Personally not a big one. There had to be a leader for the wights, that only makes sense, ever since reading about them in the first book I always thought it had to be a leader. I wouldn't have known it was the Nights King if I didn't read articles online. I also, knew that babies and dead people get turned into wights but how, clearly they are just touched. Wow some big spoiler you found out that there is a leader of the wights and they actually showed how they change someone to wight. Who cares. You are going to see more but no major events. All the major events will be where they need to be.

  • Maci | June 11, 2014 3:56 PMReply

    I think/feel GoT could have longer seasons also, but what I had really hoped would eventually be written, is John Snow and Daenerys would some how come together and end the reign of the Lannisters and such. Alas that I suppose can not happen.
    Lord of the Rings was an excellent book, the movies were devine. Sometimes I think they should have brought Game of Thrones to the big screen, then the books could have been told more in depth.

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 10:16 AM

    If the show goes to 13 episodes expect repeat conversations and a much much slower pace. Expect more set-up episodes which are boring and then the critics start to review the show worse when the show is reviewed worse people stop watching when people stop watching the show then rushes to finish the series because 9 seasons won't be possible.

    Lord of the Rings and Hobbit is only good because of the visual representation on the screen. besides that the story is exactly the same. They are going after something and something hideous is chasing them, they magically find courage they never had and kill monsters. Oh yeah and no main characters die, at all. Zero! Lord of the Rings is nothing compared to Thrones and thrones is to detailed and long for movies. They have 40 hours in TV episodes now and people want more episodes including you. Say each movie was 3 that would be 13 movies by now. Impossible story to tell in the theater, was a TV show always.

  • Donald | June 11, 2014 3:43 PMReply

    I suppose they could draw them out and go into a little more detail on some things. (I will mention some things that could be considered SPOILERS) A lot of Martin fans seem to think there are some major Blackfyre implications regarding Aegon, Illyrio and Varys but there really hasn't been much mention of that bunch of Targaryens. Also a lot of people think Rob's heir was at Riverrun and snuck out with the Blackfish... not sure that is all possible seeing how the TV show ran with the different wife. Also it seems like the show is introducing the Iron Bank much earlier and heavier into the show so I have a feeling that they will play a huge part in the next book. Can anyone else think of some heavy foreshadowing in the TV show that affect the way they think about the book will end up?

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 10:18 AM

    No mention of Aegon because not to that point in the story yet. Many believe that Robb's wife snuck out with the Blackfish because the description of Jeyne when she speaks to Jamie is different sorta than when Robb first met her. Martin has come out and said that is writing mistake. I do think Jeyne was with Jamie at Riverrun and didn't sneak out because Martin confirmed he put an incorrect description down.

  • David | June 11, 2014 3:36 PMReply

    I recognize that movies (which is essentially what GOT is, given its production value & costs) and novels are two different beasts, and there's basically no way to compare a 2-hour movie with a 500 page book (or 10 60-minute episodes with a novel as dense and rich as one of G.R.R. Martin's Song of Ice & Fire books). Having said that, and while I am a fan of the HBO series, there is no question that it would be significantly improved if there were 2-3 additional episodes each season to allow depiction of events that are skipped over in the series. Folks have mentioned the younger Stark kids - I'm also concerned that Arya's travels and travails in books 4 & 5 will be given short shrift. At $6-7 million per episode, I understand why HBO might prefer to keep it to 10 episodes per season/book. However, there doesn't need to be a fabulously expensive battle scene in every episode, so the additional cost of 2-3 additional episodes could be well below $12-$21 million, and the additional screen-time would not only deepen the audiences' understanding of the characters, and make the series truer to the novels, but would also provide a little more buffer for Mr. Martin to finish the next book(s).......

    Just sayin'.......

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 10:36 AM

    I udnerstand what you are saying. They have shown plenty of Bran and Arya just like in the book. Arya will be in Bravos training in book 4 and 5 and have plenty to show then.

    Bran's story will require some filler cause they ahve jumped ahead a little. Everyone mentions Rickon but the actor who played rickon sucked and he doesn't have any chapters or is mentioned in book 4 or 5. He will be back but there is no backstory to give a 4-7 year old. Rickon is so young we have watched his backstory. Beric - unimportant in the series, Grenn - unimportant to series, Pyp - unimportant to the series. Gengry - in hiding and we have seen his backstory he is unimportant to series. I don't understand what more character development you want from these unimportant characters. The show has done a fantastic job at hitting the main points in the series. What else do people think they have missed. Remember if a character is not added to the show then they can't use an event with the character in it. If you have 2-3 more hours during the first four seasons you have alot of repeat conversations. I feel like I have a strong understanding regarding all the current characters. Also you will have alot of episodes that set-up a big event. Right now something big happens every episode that is what makes the show so epic, there is always something. Add 3 more episodes that don't include big events then those episodes suck because we are use to an episode with something amazing in it. Now season 5 and on could use 2 maybe 3 more epsidoes because there are so many new characters.

    That is another thing this is the largest cast in TV they can't development every minor character. Take slynt for instance, he is up Alliser ass, he is arrogant for running the city watch, and he is a pussy when it comes to battle. That is character development and they did it in probably less then 10 minutes of screen time. What more do you want from these characters, there complete history and parentage?

  • Mad | June 11, 2014 3:34 PMReply

    Having a longer season won't help the Daenerys dilemma. She sits around not doing much in the books as well. Martin admitted in several interviews that he ended up writing her into a hole that was hard to get out of.

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 10:37 AM

    Bran is already to far ahead. Adding 2-3 episodes will make the viewers watch alot more of the new characters coming in the next couple seasons. Not sure the reaction to that will be.

  • Valerie | June 11, 2014 3:26 PMReply

    I could watch a longer season. I loved all of the books and the show follows very closely, but many things are left out. although I know what to expect some of the lead in to the episode is left out.

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 10:39 AM

    What major event was left out. Remember this show is considered epic based on every episode seems to have something huge happen. You add episodes and show the miniscule stuff all of a sudden the epicness fades. Would we really need to wait 2 or 3 more episodes for battle of castle black. A battle in the grand scheme of things is unimportant and pointless.

  • Steve | June 11, 2014 3:26 PMReply

    I think with all of the material there is, it wouldn't hurt to add another 4-5 episodes... if possible. I know already it costs a fortune to make one season. But i think with an added few episodes, the writers/directors could dive into more of the story that george has written. In fact, that may be a good thing to try to prolong the next season or so, to give george time to finish his next book.

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 10:40 AM

    They are showing the must see moments. If you start showing every little even and include these lead-in episodes the show gets boring. This show is predicated on the big events to make each epsiode a cliffhanger or epic. You had lead -in episodes and it loses it's luster. Everyone wants more epsidoes to show more events but what major events have been missed, none.

  • Chris | June 11, 2014 3:24 PMReply

    I think that it would be REALLY cool if they did a prelude episode to begin each season, and an epilogue episode to end each season, with the history of Westeros in the Prelude, and then an epic Epilogue episode to cap off the season venturing to the next season. The prelude episodes would be awesome for non-readers to be able to better understand characters and the history of what is behind some of the feuds that take place that have never fully been explained (i.e. Robert's Rebellion would have been a sweet prelude for one season).

  • Jo | June 11, 2014 3:23 PMReply

    I think the series needs a few more episodes to allow for character development. All characters need more screen time for viewers to buy into caring about the characters at all.

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 10:42 AM

    Who do you want to see more of. if you are not a book reader than you can't ask that question. Most people who haven't read the books want more of Gendry, Rickon, Osha, and Beric Dondarrion. How do you develop characters that are missing from the novels. Understand that in the next coming seasons the main characters will probably double. If they develop these smaller characters now with all the main characters they ahve and will have it will be a confusing mess.

  • Wuelfrath | June 11, 2014 3:21 PMReply

    More episodes please!!!!

  • snowcrave | June 11, 2014 3:13 PMReply

    i would certainly like seeing more episodes but i agree with him on the pacing of certain characters i think one of two things is going to happen very soon either they are going to cut danny out for a season or two and re cast her with an actress that will continue to get naked or they will massively expand on the gladiator themes in her part of the story she just gets so darn boring for the whole middle of the series

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 10:43 AM

    That is absurd. emilia clarke is becoming a star and if they recast her people will hate. they aren't going to do that just to show her naked, you stupid shallow man.

  • Jeffach | June 11, 2014 3:44 PM

    I seriously doubt that they will recast her character just to get more nude scenes. She's already established herself in the roll. Get your nude fix elsewhere.

  • Gobi | June 11, 2014 3:12 PMReply

    First, if you think 10 episodes isn't enough, don't start watching any shows on BBC. I think the last season of 'Sherlock' was 3 episodes and most seem to be 7 eps or less.
    They could either make 2 more episodes each season, but I'm surprised they just don't drag them out longer. Instead of one each week, maybe one every two weeks or 6 episodes then nothing for a month then the next 4. Sure it wouldn't help people who crave an episode every week, but it would at least SEEM like the show was on longer.

  • RtUp | June 11, 2014 3:32 PM

    And then, they will cancel the show; Copper.

  • aj | June 11, 2014 3:11 PMReply

    "we're not sure how many more seasons we can put up with Daenerys sitting around in sunny fortresses learning that she needs to rule, not just conquer"

    hahahahahaha

    hahahahaha

  • Mike | June 11, 2014 4:02 PM

    Totally Agree---I think Dany is miscast...Im not a big fan of this actress--she just seems essentially emotionless and expressionless...
    Ygritte is annoying as hell too, glad she got an arrow from young Ollie...

  • Chris | June 11, 2014 3:09 PMReply

    They need more episodes because with each new season the actors playing the children seem to outgrow the roles they are playing. Bran might be in his twenties by the time he finds that raven.

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 10:46 AM

    Did you watch the preview to episode 10 regarding Bran? I hate when people complain about actors outgrowing their character. Arya will be fine. Bran is a cripple and can never stand, if he keeps that long hair he'll be fine. Sansa is turning into a young woman so she is fine and they will recast Rickon but Rickon won't be in the show for a few season.

  • bvgas | June 11, 2014 3:04 PMReply

    They absolutely need longer seasons & episodes. There is simply not enough time to cover things. This season is basically over & so much more needs to be addressed.

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 10:47 AM

    You only add episodes because you can't fit every major event into a season. You don't add episodes to add development to miniscule characters.

  • Lydia | June 11, 2014 2:52 PMReply

    I LOVE Game of Thrones! I can't get enough!! I hate when the episodes end and I have to wait another week. Now the season is about to end....AGAIN??? We really do need more episodes. That would be awesome! PLEASE! Love it! :)

  • Jeff the bird | June 11, 2014 2:52 PMReply

    I don't understand why Game of Thrones is only 10 episodes long in the first place. That is less then the number of episodes of network television shows which normally run 13 to 16.

    I agree with this that many characters on Game of Thrones seem to be spinning their wheels. Some of the story is so far out of place with the rest of the show it is hard to wrap it up together. The two young Stark boys have little screen time or story thru out most of the over all seasons it is impossible to relate them to the Game Of Throne story at all. They would be better off (fictionally) dead or killed off at the pace their story is unfolding.

    On the other hand its like other comments have stated - its all about the money, not about the viewer or the story. HBO, I believe had more episodes of other shows then they have of Game of Thrones. Seems to me if you give the viewers what they want it seems the profit would follow - at least in regards to Game of Thrones.

  • harlow8150 | June 12, 2014 10:52 AM

    Another non-book reader. Rickon never had a POV in the books and is not in book 4 or book5. I don't see why people want to develop him. How can you not have that in place already. Everything that happened to Bran has happened to rickon. he is only 4 -7 years old. What you want to know when he learned to walk or when he got off the tit? Rickon is not in the books so why put him in the show. You are watching his backstory unfold. He doesn't have any back story. Bran is getting to where he needs to go. He doesn't have many chapters int he book also but his role will be imprtant. He is not doing what he is doing with out a purpose.

    don't you understand yet that the actual Game of Thrones is pointless. The wight walker invasion is most important and the game is an aftermath issue. Bran and Rickon are not involved the game, they are in for a different purpose a more important purpose.

  • RtUp | June 11, 2014 2:42 PMReply

    At least 15.

  • elly | June 11, 2014 2:36 PMReply

    Definitely needs to be more episodes.. Love Games of Thrones.

  • Derek | June 11, 2014 2:32 PMReply

    It's pretty clear why they are only 10 episodes. It's all about the money. HBO sells subscriptions for 6 months mostly. So you sign up to watch it and they only have to give you ten episodes to keep you a yearly customer, but they don't have to spend a few more million on more episodes. They are giving us the bare minimum without costing themselves more. They are smart but we suffer. Where shows like the walking dead order more episodes because they make more in advertising on big shows. HBO does not get advertising money.

  • Chuck Watson | June 11, 2014 2:28 PMReply

    It needs more episodes, primarily because of the huge cast of characters that it includes. Or possibly the episodes should be longer.

  • Jw | June 11, 2014 2:25 PMReply

    Totally want more eps. I read all the books and it keills me to see so much left out, or changed in order to fit the format and make a more cohesive TV ep. I think just a few more eps and it would win over the reader fanbase a bit more.

  • Debbie McDowell | June 11, 2014 2:24 PMReply

    I feel like Season 4 just got started ........and now we're coming up on the finale? I say make it
    a 13 show season. Let's see the details .......that are currently being left on the cutting room floor. It is a great show..........why cut corners now? What's 20 million !!!(tee hee!!)

  • SER ADAM | June 11, 2014 2:24 PMReply

    YES YES YES LONGER SEASONS PLEEEEAAASSSEEE!!!!

  • Ms Smith | June 11, 2014 2:17 PMReply

    I would love to see more episodes, since the seasons are so distant from one another r

  • Ms Smith | June 11, 2014 2:18 PM

    I mean 'another'

  • Dianne | June 11, 2014 2:15 PMReply

    I'm all for a longer season and more beef. I've read the books twice and am trying to follow along with the show but so much is missed in the show I feel is important. Especially for anyone that has not read the books.

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