Tobias Lindholm, A Hijacking

In a nice note of symmetry to our 2013, one of our first interviews of the year at the Goteborg Film Festival in Sweden, was with the Danish director of “A Hijacking,” Tobias Lindholm, and today we found ourselves in December in Marrakech getting to speak with him again. Lindholm is here as part of the Marrakech Film Festival’s tribute to Scandinavian cinema, which also boasts Tomas Alfredson, Noomi Rapace, Alicia Vikander, Nicolas Winding Refn and Mads Mikkelsen in its starry lineup. But it’s not just his nationality that brings him back; last year “A Hijacking” his sophomore directorial feature, was awarded the Jury Prize at this very festival. It’s always a pleasure to talk to anyone as engaging as Lindholm, but the year has proven busier than he had anticipated back at its start, and among other tidbits, he gave us an in depth look at his next directorial project,The War” which is clearly on his mind in an evolving form right now, as even here at the festival, he is putting in four or five-hour days purely on script work.

"I’m very interested in how humans survive out there and maintain their humanity."

Back in January you were planning to take a couple of years off before mounting your next directorial project. Things have clearly accelerated during the year.
The thing is, a year and a half ago when we showed “A Hijacking” in Venice, it kind of dictated the year following, with a lot of traveling a lot of talking about that film. Luckily we’re proud of it and extremely happy with it, but it also made me wanna move on. You can drag it out for a long time but at some point you need to do something new and I sooner than I expected felt I needed to move on to a new project, not to get stuck in the past. And then the idea for “The War” just came, and the logic of it and the structure came quite fast so I started to work and we’re going to shoot in September next year.

And it turns out that Thomas [Vinterberg, Lindholm’s close friend and collaborator] is now writing his next film. When I did my first film, “R,” we wrote it at the same time as we wrote “Submarino” [which Vinterberg directed] and we shot them at roughly the same time. We did exactly the same with “The Hunt” and “A Hijacking” writing at the same time, shooting at the same time. And because he’s chosen to make “Far From The Madding Crowd” in England, it’s gonna turn out the same again, so he’s gonna be making “The Commune” [which Lindholm co-wrote] when I’m making “The War.” So we’re in kind of a rhythm.

You likened your directorial process to “getting the band back together” each time. Will you continue with largely the same crew and key personnel on “The War”?
Definitely. Exactly the same crew. And Pilou [Asbaek who has starred in both Lindholm’s previous films] is again the main character, more alone this time than he was in “A Hijacking,” it’s gonna be following one guy. I mean we’re gonna tell a story about his wife and kids at home while he is away at war, but he is gonna be the engine. 

In many ways writing it now I realize it’s a mixture of “A Hijacking” and “R.” “R” is very anthropological—you’re just inside a jail and looking around and finding the logic of a jail in Denmark. “A Hijacking” has an engine, you know it’s gonna be over when the hijacking is over and the negotiations dictate the pace of the film. This time I’m very interested in how humans survive out there and maintain their humanity. It might as well be on the moon, it’s just a desert somewhere, you’re very far away from home so how do you maintain yourself as a person? And that view reminds me of “R” but at the same time you have an engine, with this guy going through six months out there.

Zero Dark Thirty Jessica Chastain

I believe that for me, [Kathryn] Bigelow has shown a way to tell this type of story. I’m very much inspired by both “The Hurt Locker” and “Zero Dark Thirty.” But this is a Danish reality so it’s not even close to an American military action—we haven’t that story. This is the first war that Denmark is actually in for years, we have Danish soldiers dying out there. I believe that Denmark as a nation is, just on a small scale, where the U.S. was post -Vietnam. We kind of know have to accept that we ask these young guys to do this and now we have to find a way to get them back. And I think it’s time now to reveal some of the terrible, inhuman, violent dilemmas they are in out there and not expect them to be over-human. We judge them very hard on whatever they do out there and I just wanna go and describe the reality they’re in, because maybe we can find an understanding of how things can go so terribly wrong.

So it’s not politics that motivates you to make the movie?
No, it’s a very humanistic movie. I believe it’s very political to go and judge the soldiers; I feel I need to describe them as human beings. That’s the responsibility I feel, just as I did with the CEO [in “A Hijacking”], instead of making him a bad guy.

So where is the film drawn from?
I’ve never been a soldier. In Denmark at 18 as a male you go in a draw and if they pick you, you go and serve for a year. I didn’t. I knew the doctor there so he kind of said “….ok, isn’t there … something wrong with your back?” and I was like, “Yes, yes my back is hurting a lot!” So I was lucky. But my father was a soldier. He was a frogman in the special forces in Denmark before I was born and always the reality of that inspired me. My mom is very left-wing, classic socialist and she always talked about the solders as almost crazy, violent, sick people, and I want to confront that because its very judgmental and I’m not sure it’s true.

I feel that [2010 documentary] “Restrepo” is the best war movie I’ve ever seen. It’s very honest and a terrible story but it brings me so close because for once I can actually see a soldier break down in the middle of a battle because he lost a friend. That’s a very human expression that we sometimes get cheated of in war movies because they have a political agenda. So instead of a political movie, let’s have a humanist movie.

So is the comparison to Vietnam because you feel that Afghanistan has become something of a crisis of national conscience for Denmark?
Yes. You know, I read an article about a Danish officer who had ordered the bombing of a compound—he thought he saw guys digging down IEDs, later they found out that it wasn’t that at all, it was kitchen waste or a dead dog or something. But he hadn’t slept for two weeks, that’s the reality of war. He was prosecuted when he got back to Denmark. That reality interests me a lot.

An example: our main character has persuaded a young soldier who’s afraid after a couple of months and wants to go home, he’s persuaded him to stay, and he takes him out on a patrol and this young guy gets shot in the neck. And our main character has to save him but the medivac helicopter can’t land until they’ve quieted down [the turmoil]. So he orders the bombing of a compound. Now, he saves the guy and we’re all happy and 20 minutes later he’s gonna be picked up by the military police and be prosecuted at home. And now suddenly in the courtroom, listening to the orders he gave on the radio, he sounds very racist, very violent, not human at all.  I suspect, [even though I was] cheering for it when I saw it 20 minutes ago, now suddenly I’m confronted with my own [reaction] and I’m thinking, did I cheer for that? Didn’t that woman die? Did those kids die? That what I hope to achieve: a picture that can twist and turn the sympathy for this guy, until you’re so confused that you don’t know what the fuck to think!

It’s set in Afghanistan. Will you shoot on location?
I’m not allowed. My producer is with me and they said after the Indian Ocean, we’re done with that, and we need to get insurance, and we can’t get that in Afghanistan. So we’re looking in Morocco, Turkey to find the perfect spot for it. We wanna recreate a reality out there, so I don’t want to make a patchwork... Build the simple base that they’re living in and some of the compound. We want to build that stage and stay there. Because that’s the reality: they build this place and stay there for six months.

Are you going to torture your cast as much as in “A Hijacking”?
Yes, of course. [shrugs and laughs] It’s Pilou.