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Want to Write a Guest Post for Women and ...Cross Post: A Feminist Defense of Louis CK
5. “This is also about men and women – couples are fighting about Daniel Tosh and rape jokes. But they’re both making a classic gender mistake – women are saying “this is how I feel about this, and my feelings should be everyone’s primary concern. Men are saying your feelings are wrong and they don’t matter. To men I say, listen every now and then. To women I say now that we’ve heard what you’ve had to say, shut the f*ck up about it for a little while. And then, we all get together to kill the Jews.”
And this is the point in the interview when I really started laughing. CK starts by trotting out old horses – women are emotional, dudes don’t listen. I’m sorry, but as an extremely passionate person who dates a pretty even-keeled kind of guy, this is totally true. He doesn’t care when I am ranting on about Mitt Romney or the patriarchy, but that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t value my opinions. On the flip side, when he’s going on and on about something in physics, you couldn’t pay me to care (or listen half of the time).
We both do it, but “dudes don’t listen” is a pretty common joke. Not anything revolutionary there. Melissa McEwan at Shakesville calls this talk “gender essentialism,” and while that’s probably true, CK wasn’t seeking to have a philosophical conversation about gender roles. He was offering up commentary that many of us identify with, essentialism or not. The “shut the f*ck up about it for a little while” comment was hysterical. As someone who is told to shut up a lot, I’m pretty used to it, so maybe I’m desensitized. I’m a fat young feminist who lives in Texas – you don’t have to preach to me about not being listened to. Feminists should probably stop proving the point that we can’t take a joke, and the first step to doing that is to pay attention to the context.
There was some brilliant discussion across the web about the kinds of rape jokes that are acceptable – meaning that they don’t make the victim the butt of the joke. Louis CK may still enjoy a “good rape joke,” but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t the empowering ones, the ones that give survivors something to laugh at. People who have been sexually assaulted may use humor to cope with what happened to them – and that is fine. They’re allowed.
On Twitter this morning, I made the point that I find it hysterical when someone who is obviously uninformed or otherwise a moron tells me that I’m dumb or that I should shut up and go eat some more cookies. That shit is funny to me. You know why? Because it proves that you’ve won the argument. It proves that they have no intellectual recourse.
I asked @amaditalks if she felt the same way. Judging from her response, she didn’t:
“No, I find it highly offensive, inappropriate and infuriating. Why would I be amused by such a thing?”
I thought that was kind of a thing when you decided to become a feminist blogger/Tweeter. At first you’re all offended by the trolls, but then you begin to just laugh at them. I was wrong.
Point being, we all find things to be funny that others would find horrifying or completely unfunny. I tend to be in the camp that rape is never funny, but Kate Harding’s brilliant round up of rape jokes that work has changed my mind – rape jokes can be empowering, but only if they’re framed in the correct way.
The real point, though, is that we should constantly be evolving and learning. That’s what the entire feminist movement is about. We can’t continually be pissed off at dudes for working on correcting their biases and misconceptions. We can’t say that they’re just covering their asses when they genuinely are trying to evolve and grow as a human being.
That’s no way to build a movement, and it’s no way to encourage men and women to get involved. In fact, it’s directly exclusionary. If we refuse to include those that aren’t quite as “feminist” as we are, we’re making a mistake.
So, ultimately, I think that Louis CK did a pretty damn progressive thing. I think that he used a huge platform like The Daily Show to announce that rape is a thing that “polices women’s lives.” That women have to worry about leaving their homes, wearing the wrong clothes, and that rape is a real life concern for all women.
So, I’ll pose the question: How many people (not just men) were watching and went to bed with that thought on their mind?
_______________________________________________
Amy is a social media strategist living in Dallas, Texas. She likes music, trashy TV, and ladybiz. tweet: @aemccarthy
This post originally appeared on Feminists for Choice. It was printed with permission
Also check out this video - Rape Joke Supercut by the Women's Media Center, Fem 2.0, Women in Media and News and Pop Culture Pirate.
15 Rape Jokes That Work (Kate Harding)
Anatomy of a Successful Rape Joke (Nation)
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Sorry i missed you Melissa. Have another one soon!
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7 Comments
Helena | August 10, 2012 4:30 PM
I really enjoyed this. I disagree with you in that I have found many different kinds of rape/sexual assault jokes funny. I also have experience sexual assault so I do understand the kick to the gut when a comedian or show/movie/book make a joke that I find unfunny. But I have lots of other triggers that are non-rape related. I balance them, and that's life. I loved what CK said, and it's great to see a feminist who doesn't even find rape jokes funny ever(or not that often) get what he was doing.
Your argument at the end of the article about not throwing the baby out with the bath water when men and women are trying to examine their relationship to rape and violence against women issues is WONDERFUL. I am one of those women who has, for most of her life, been loathe to label myself a feminist. Mostly because of the dogmatic and inflexible feminists I met while in college. I've since met wonderful, open-minded & funny feminists and am now trying to reclaim the label in the name of women's equality. Whatever that basic concept means to you-how you feel it needs to play out in our culture and social structure, with the rejoinder that you're willing to fight for/work towards getting there.
Also, the fact that you define yourself as a feminist who's overweight & living in Texas, laughing at internet trolls makes me want to have coffee with you. What an awesome, strong lady you must be.
xo
A new york city feminist
Bom | July 19, 2012 4:35 PM
It is also worth noting that one of groups that Louis CK donated some of his web-special profits (Fistula Foundation) is a pro-women, anti-rape charity.
Linn | July 19, 2012 1:53 PM
Melissa, loved this post. Fascinating point of view. Please continue to cross post with this smart and talented person. Thank you!
Bes | July 19, 2012 1:15 PM
Sure, not consuming the "one size fits all men" channel package is an option, it seems rather extreme. I would like to consume SOME cable channels without being forced to subsidize unhinged misogyny and I think there are many channels who would be glad to have me as a customer. And, since I make more consumer decisions than any 5 randomly selected males 18-35 I think there are any number of advertisers who would like to reach my eyes. Where does the Government control fear come from? I don't like Corporate Media selecting the channels/advertising venues I subscribe to and I don't want the Government to select the channels I subscribe to. But it isn't a choice of government or Corporate Media, WE COULD ALL SELECT OUR OWN CHANNELS. And since the Corporate Media merely reflects our culture there is no reason for them to fear Cable Choice as a consumer OPTION since everyone should want all their channels because they reflect us. Right?
Bes | July 19, 2012 10:56 AM
Interesting post. Here is the real problem. Corporate Media does not exist in a free market. If you want cable so you can get better reception on PBS you are forced to take the "one size fits all men" cable package and subsidize Corporate Media's unhinged misogyny. Wouldn't you love to have some consumer rights? Imagine calling the cable company and saying "remove comedy central from my channel line up I am sick of their unhinged misogyny, IMO men aren't funny and I am tired of subsidizing this shit with my cable payment". Go to this link and find out how much you cable bill would be if you could pay for only the channels you want. My bill would be under $14.00 a month. http://www.howcableshouldbe.com/
The people who run this site are Republican. Consumer rights relative to Corporate Media is a feminist issue and I appreciate their willingness to take on the issue.