RT: I was talking to Stacie in the car and I was like it's so archaic the idea of boxing us in in saying this is a lesbian movie. There's so many people who are positively responding to the film because it is a marriage.
SP: I think that the fact that it's a same sex couple actually makes it a better vehicle for talking about marriage than it would if it was a man and a woman partly because there are so many stories told and you can switch the genders either way. You can have it be a husband who's a workaholic and his wife cheats. Women need to be found attractive and adored or else they have to find it elsewhere. That would be the story told about that. If it was a woman married to a man who trolled around or had affairs, the story would also be put into a category that all men have a mid-life crisis and they have to sleep with the secretary for a while and then if the woman can survive it he comes back. These stories don't allow you then to see the humanity in both roles. In other words, what the man goes through and what the woman goes through in that scenario is human. And the movie refuses to indict the one who cheats and it also doesn't indict the partner who is unable to deliver sexually. Instead they're both looked at as these are part of the human dilemma. I've heard male viewers who have really responded to the film, straight male viewers, because they're finally given a surrogate in the form of Abby and they don't feel judged.
Robin Weigert enters the room and the conversation.
Robin Weigert: We as women are always watching movies and if you want to be cool you have to identify with the man in the movie. I remember having a women's studies class and they show that Lily Tomlin-John Travolta movie. I forget what it’s called. And she had objectified him and there were all these articles about how it had inverted desire, how it had inverted the gaze. I think this is a film where a man associates with women.
RT: That was true of Zero Dark Thirty the surrogate in that movie was completely the woman and --
WaH: I think it's a new place where we're looking at female roles very differently and you see what happens when a female delivers a female protagonist versus where a male delivers a female protagonist.
SP: Not necessarily. I think of Paul Mazursky, how well he draws women.
RT: I think there are men who draw women very well.
WaH: There are men who draw women very well, but it's also about empowering women's vision in a way that hasn't been done before.
SP: Yeah. I think this it has to do with allowing a lot of voices into the conversation, I really do. I think that's what it comes down to and I think voices develop and we're all better for it when that happens.
WaH: In This Is 40, Judd Apatow put his kids in the movie and your kids are in your film. Why?
SP: The difference between me and Judd Apatow --
RT: Is about a billion dollars, for starters.
SP: I talked to my wife and my mother and Rose about whether my children should be the children in the movie. And what it really came down to was I didn't want any stage mothers on my set. I knew how my children reacted in certain situations. I could understand their psychology. We had a very, very short shoot. I have a shorthand with my children. And they're fucking cute.
WaH: Really cute.
SP: Robin had an ease with Marin (her daughter). She was able to really connect with her. They still have a connection.
RW: Marin was a huge help. Because I don't have my own children. She was like a great acting coach in what it is to be a mother. She would leap into my arms almost from the very beginning. But she would also gift me with like calling me mommy a lot of the time and with her arms flung around my neck she would say, “This is what it feel the like to have a child,” and you would go oh god.
SP: You never told me that.
RW: I think I may have at one point but she's such a natural in front of the camera. I think you may have an actress on your hands. She loved it too.
WaH: I’m glad you’re here Robin, because I feel I've seen you in so many things and it was just amazing to watch you as the lead, so talk about that.
RW: That's new for me, yeah. There's a certain comfort in being in supporting roles because it's not all on you. I am incredibly grateful for having been given this opportunity. I'm incredibly grateful to these two women. And for the trust involved in that as well because I hadn't done it before. And also the willingness to see me in a very different light. I played a stripper before but I don't think I've had a single sex scene in a film before and suddenly there were a plethora. It was all very, very different territory and what was being asked of me was also a much more graded and nuanced kind of approach to acting itself. I had to trust that a camera was going to see things that I imagine might be invisible and when I look at what came through I was like yes, it's true what they say.
I am used to sort of delivering a character in a more extroverted way and she recedes a lot, especially at the beginning when she's sort of stunned from her head injury. And I really appreciated it because it's given me a different sort of toolbox going forward.
WaH: What did you learn most about yourself from doing this?
RW: Some things I have to work on. My level of fear sometimes was so great that I would get just swamped in the feeling. But I was tested and I think whenever you're tested you learn and hopefully you learn a good lesson. I was definitely very tested just in term of the fatigue in the kind of schedule we were on and the challenges of many of the scenes and I can be gratified to know that I survived the test.
WaH: What are your expectations at out of Sundance, Stacie and Rose? What are the goals? I mean sell the movie, but anything other than that?
RT: The goals -- it's really finding distributor who's going to care for this film. I think it's really a powerful film and really important that it is treated correctly in the marketplace.
WaH: It has a lot of layers.
RT: I imagine that for the film. That’s really kind of amazing and for that I wish the biggest audience I possibly can upon it.
SP: The key is how to get the 50-year-old straight couples to go see this. That's one -- then it'll cross.
RT: Robin's nude in bed.
RW: We tried to do our job and the beautiful thing about marketing and distribution is that there are some really brilliant people out there and they'll do their job and we'll try our best to support them but we've done our job.
WaH: What advice do you have for other women first-time directors?
SP: Seek your mentors and Yodas, and always talk to people. Always seek advice. Always reach out. Ask for help. Don't guard yourself in a way that will be counterproductive. And embrace all aspects of being a woman and don't be apologetic for feeling a certain way at a given time. And you know what? Like yes and it really works a lot of the time. You know? Yes is really good. We sort of need to mentor each other. Rose is never going to have any shortage of women coming to her wanting to make films and I realize the gift that I've been given. Maybe paying it forward is important. I watched a women in film panel-- I won't name the panel that I watched, but it was a pretty prestigious. I got so fucking pissed off. I'm not going to tell you who was on it but you would be surprised. Let's just put it that way, they couldn't be bothered.
WaH: It's also about the women's movement...
SP: We have a 20/40 book club in Montclair. We call it the 20/40 and we have a bunch of 20-year-olds that come and a bunch of my contemporaries and we read Diary of a Mad Housewife and stuff because my friend Liz MacIntosh didn't know who like Camille Paglia. And I was like we have some work to do.
RT: I was going to say is that so wrong?
SP: They all grew up and they didn't know a time when abortion was illegal. We talked like this for a year and a half. She was like, don't be a feminist.
RT: That's a quotable quote.
WaH: What about Hollywood?
SP: You do have to be macaroni and cheese and not the broccoli.
RW: But you put the broccoli in there.
SP: So your kids don't taste it.
RT: It's there for you to eat and it's good for you and you should eat it. I'm saying the broccoli should be on the plate but perhaps the broccoli isn't the main course.
SP: Shouldn't get stuck in your throat that you choke on it.
RT: Maybe the broccoli needs cheese on top of it sometimes.